vlinden,
i guess i should add that you must take care not to let this experience(loss) destroy you...do not doubt your feelings, do not second guess yourself and think that you are somehow at fault, because you know deep down in your heart that you are not, no matter what your (ex)boyfriend might say. He will try to destruct (or reconstruct)YOUR ego in an attempt to recruit you...remember who you are...and know that you will come through this. i don't think i can add anything else that will be useful.


regards,
Shad

Quote
vlinden
And I think of him bonding with other people, choosing a bunch of Landmark jargon-spouting drones over me, and I feel such a deep sense of miserable loss, it just cuts right through me.

. . . .

the sad part vlinden is that they wont truly "bond"; my friend became completely narcistic, incapable of seeing anything real beyond herself...i don't believe there is any real level of true friendship with these people ...take them away from that scene and they will eventually (hopefully) revert back to their former selves. That is why the lekkies continue with the phone calls and follow ups, to keep people plugged in.

But unfortunately his experience will change you...when he finally comes to his sences you may have moved on...and that is the saddest part...and the part that might keep you trapped in a hopeless relationship. The waiting and hoping that he will finally see the light...one minute you will feel like you can let him go, the next you will want to hold on. It is not an envialble position to be in, and the best thing for you is to keep writing here - and no, you are not pathetic and whiney, you are in genuine distress, and you need emotional support....and this IS the place where you will get it...i first came here when a very very close friend of mine got involved with Landmark. She seems to have moved away from them, but she will still not talk to me about Landmark, although she does tell me that they continue to phone and leave messages and mail stuff to her.

I am still not resting easy that she is done with them.... time will tell i quess. In the meantime, keep writing and sharing here, and know that nothing you say is silly or pathetic.

regards,
Shad

Hi Shadow and Zorro,

Thank you both for writing to me. I've been on a much, much needed vacation. Well, it was a moving trip that I turned into a vacation. I spent some time on very beautiful beaches, and this did wonders for my head and heart. It really helped to break me out of the awful hole I was trapped in for a month. I feel like I'm healing now, like I'm becoming my old self again. My heart doesn't feel like it has an enormous tear in it, letting the universe blow through. Man, I even lost weight during this horrible time, which I'm now gaining back (I"m very thin, can't afford to lose weight!)

Zorro, you may be right about my ex wanting to "complete," I don't know. It is over for us, though, and that's final, and I've accepted that. The really bad pain has started to pass. I'm sorry about you and your ex. But you know how it is, get out there and wail on that heavy bag for a while and keep on getting your act back together and maybe she'll come back to you. If not, there's someone waiting down the line, and hopefully better timing.

I'm ready move on myself, but I will still check into this board and post because I'm fascinated by all the topics here. And I'll let you know if I find out that my ex quit Landmark, or if he becomes a Forum leader!

Thank you so much to everyone who posted and offered support over the past month. This board was a life saver, though i did get a bit obsessed with it for a while. . . . I learned a lot, though.

Good luck everyone, and keep up this wonderful work.

Quote
vlinden
Hi Shadow and Zorro,

Thank you both for writing to me. I've been on a much, much needed vacation. Well, it was a moving trip that I turned into a vacation. I spent some time on very beautiful beaches, and this did wonders for my head and heart. It really helped to break me out of the awful hole I was trapped in for a month. I feel like I'm healing now, like I'm becoming my old self again. My heart doesn't feel like it has an enormous tear in it, letting the universe blow through. Man, I even lost weight during this horrible time, which I'm now gaining back (I"m very thin, can't afford to lose weight!)

Zorro, you may be right about my ex wanting to "complete," I don't know. It is over for us, though, and that's final, and I've accepted that. The really bad pain has started to pass. I'm sorry about you and your ex. But you know how it is, get out there and wail on that heavy bag for a while and keep on getting your act back together and maybe she'll come back to you. If not, there's someone waiting down the line, and hopefully better timing.

I'm ready move on myself, but I will still check into this board and post because I'm fascinated by all the topics here. And I'll let you know if I find out that my ex quit Landmark, or if he becomes a Forum leader!


Thank you so much to everyone who posted and offered support over the past month. This board was a life saver, though i did get a bit obsessed with it for a while. . . . I learned a lot, though.

Good luck everyone, and keep up this wonderful work.

Thanks for the update vlinden, and I am glad you are "on the mend" - as my daughter often tells me, "what does not kill us makes us stronger", so i guess that that will apply to you now too...your heart has probably grown in its ability to feel love and compassion...don't you think?


Continuing to read and post here is a help to others who have gone through what you have gone through, so I do hope you will have time to pop back and keep us posted on your progress.

take care,
Shad

Vlinden, good for you.

From the Landmark website, description of the Advanced Course:

Each of us has a sense of something possible beyond the ordinary. Each of us has moments when something about our lives, our family, our community, our world awakens in us a sense of possibility. Each of us has glimpses of that most fundamental of all possibilities - that life really could be extraordinary. The Advanced Course is based on the premise that each of us can enjoy that life now - an extraordinary life, a life of possibilities.

Almost everything we know argues that living powerfully is accomplished by skillfully building on the past. The Advanced Course poses that exactly the opposite is true - that the most important determinant of our success, of who we are, and of how we function, is not the past but the future.

The Advanced Course reveals the true power and possibility available to each of us as human beings - a power derived not from what is predictable but from what is possible. This course leaves you with the technology for creating and designing a future that is informed by the past but is in no way limited by the past. It gives a completely different quality to life in the present - a freedom to live powerfully now.

---------------

I know that my ex is taking the Advanced Course right now, and I was curious about what Landmark had to say about it on their website.

It's amazing but the most damning evidence against Landmark, for me, has always been Landmark itself, its propaganda, and its Lekkie drones.

When I read the above paragraphs, I'm just stunned, once again, that intelligent people can fall for this. Especially the line, "This course leaves you with the technology for creating and designing a future that is informed by the past but is in no way limited by the past."

NO WAY LIMITED BY THE PAST.

No way limited by the past.

Now, these people have had decades to perfect their message, so you can't chalk this up to shoddy copy writing. They must mean this.

Does this mean my ex is no longer limited by the fact that he has to take a certain medication every day or he essentially dies, and that he has to be very careful about his body. I didn't want to do very adventurous stuff with him (which I love to do) because I didn't want to be too far from a doctor and I didn't want him to get injured. I guess all that is no longer an issue now?

Well no . . . that couldn't be . . . that doesn't make sense . . . so, what's the problem here? Where does the logic break down? Where is the lack of "integrity" with language? It must be in the words "no way." No way limited. Certainly we are in "some ways" limited by our past.

They say:
"Almost everything we know argues that living powerfully is accomplished by skillfully building on the past. The Advanced Course poses that exactly the opposite is true - that the most important determinant of our success, of who we are, and of how we function, is not the past but the future."

Amazing. So . . . if I've been stupid in the past, after Landmark I'll be smart . . . ? If I want to be? It doesn't matter if my IQ was 75, I can still pursue that Masters in molecular biology? Go me!!

I like this line, too: "Each of us has glimpses of that most fundamental of all possibilities - that life really could be extraordinary."

Landmark propaganda is stuffed full of exactly these kinds of premises. If you take half a second to think about it, you realize what a load of crap it is. I guess people don't take that half second.

THAT MOST FUNDAMENTAL OF ALL POSSIBILITIES . . .

Hm.

I don't know that this makes any sense whatsoever. Is there even such a thing as the "most fundamental" of all possibilities??

. . . THAT LIFE REALLY COULD BE EXTRAORDINARY.

What does this mean? Who determines what is ordinary and what is "extra" ordinary? Isn't life itself rather extraordinary in its ordinariness? And isn't the determination of the quality of your life absolutely personal and individual? One person's ordinary is another's extraordinary. And can life be extraordinary all the time? Wouldn't that get a little tiring? Is it okay for it to be ordinary sometimes? Or are you an asshole if your life is ordinary for, say, a week? Do you have to call your Landmark coach if you have the suspicion that your life is ordinary again?

Such vague nonsense. This is what they're selling.

"The Advanced Course is based on the premise that each of us can enjoy that life now - an extraordinary life, a life of possibilities."

A LIFE OF POSSIBILITIES.

Well . . . yeah. I suppose if we sit around thinking about the practically infinite possibilities that surround us all the time, we could say we are "living a life of possibilities." Certainly you can't pursue or reach all of them. But if Landmark is selling the IDEA of possibilities, that's an easy one. You can spur people to think about possibilities until the cows come home. Does that make people feel good? I guess so.

"It gives a completely different quality to life in the present - a freedom to live powerfully now."

A FREEDOM TO LIVE POWERFULLY NOW.

What the hell does living powerfully mean? Do you punch through the fridge to get the butter instead of opening the door? Do you go to work in a cape?

Ah god, such absurdity.

Just say the magic Landmark words and all your past stupidity and meanness and sickness and abuse and trauma and mistakes will go poof and you'll be "free" to live "powerfully."

That's some good snake oil, boy.

Here's more about the Advanced Course:

In This Program
You will:
• Generate a life vision, anchored in reality, in which you and others can become fully engaged.
• Acquire the know-how to translate your vision into practical, effective action.
• Step outside familiar, habitual ways of thinking to invent new perspectives and approaches to being and acting.
• Develop a facility for recognizing things as they are - distinct from your hopes, preferences, and fears.
• Stop trying to "get somewhere," stop "becoming," and experience joy and satisfaction in being yourself now.
• See your worries and concerns from a different light so that they no longer diminish your effectiveness, but
actually forward your commitments.
• Gain power in dealing with day-to-day issues and upsets. Be able to address them consistently, powerfully,
and effectively.


So many things come to mind when I read this.

Generate a life vision, anchored in reality,

What reality are they talking about? Landmark seems set on destroying any concept of objective "reality" so I wonder what they could mean here?

Acquire the know-how to translate your vision into practical, effective action.

What if your vision is absurd? What if you plans are too grandiose? What if you want to . . say . . . oh, I don't know . . . end hunger by 1997? I mean, if Landmark itself couldn't do that . . . .

Step outside familiar, habitual ways of thinking to invent new perspectives and approaches to being and acting.

Okay. We're going to "invent" new approaches to being and acting. Is it me . . or does this sound rather silly? What exactly could be "invented" at this point in time? An invention is something completely new. Is there some completely new way of being and acting? Should we cluck like chickens and walk on our hands? What could be so new? Just examining the language here, the promises.

• Develop a facility for recognizing things as they are - distinct from your hopes, preferences, and fears.

Ah, this is an interesting one. It seems, again, to contradict Landmark's other existential teachings about objective reality. How does one recognize "things as they are"? You need to use your critical thinking skills to determine how things are, which Landmark, in other areas, seems to discourage. And even once you do that, you can never be totally free from your own perspective. So none of these black and white, blanket Landmark statements make any sense, and they contradict each other.

• Stop trying to "get somewhere," stop "becoming," and experience joy and satisfaction in being yourself now.

That's pretty funny. You're supposed to spend most of your time imagining your "possibilities" and how you can change your life, but then you're supposed to stop trying to "get somewhere" and "become." Landmark people must get purdy confused. And you're supposed to find satisfaction in being yourself, but what the hell are you, after Landmark has wiped away all of your past, all of your "stories" -- all of your self?

Okay, I'm hungry, I want breakfast, so I think I'll stop here.

Whadda loada crapola . . .

I'm still waiting for an admission/promise of 'rainbows coming out of your ass' ... as per this place run by LE graduates.

John :-)

Oh . . . my . . . god.

That was horrifying.

Thanks, John. I'm going to be creeped out for the rest of the day!!!

Good to know what happens when Landmark folks open a restaurant. Not surprising either. Let's all pray they don't imagine the possibility of starting a health clinic. I can just see them, asking someone vomiting blood in the waiting room what the community can expect of them today -- meanwhile no one in back can figure out how to get the lights on.

People who don't know about Landmark just thought all the crazy obnoxious insipid jargon on the menus and the drone-like waitstaff were all hippies. I guess that's an easy mistake. Though honestly, even hippies aren't that annoying.

Bleeeehhhhhh . . . . .

Heh heh heh.

Reminds me of a certain lightbulb joke ....

John