I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you've lost him. Just like I lost my fiancee.

Once someone does something that stupid in a relationship, there's no use in hanging on.

You'll NEVER be able to trust his judgement and competencies in making decisions because this one BIG fuck-up will loom over everything.

I wish it wasn't true but it is.

I had similar problems.

Thinking I could change things with an already-brainwashed fiancee was the first mistake.

Take your lick and move on. Either way, he'll never forgive you for posting to Rick Ross.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2008 08:29AM by Vic-Luc.

The fact that they've gotten his $850 already will make him all the more determined to take the course. They know this. That's why they are so persistent about getting the money up front. It's right out of Cialdini's book, "Influence," and the rationale behind most deposits, down payments, or reserves. He CAN ask for and get a refund, though these creeps know the likelihood is he won't and they'll also make it very, very difficult for him. They may accuse him of low "integrity" if they think that will push one of his buttons. You might tell him to ask for his money back just for the time being. That attempt may sour him on these people if he sees how nasty they can get.


Ellen

If you can, borrow/steal his credit card just before he goes off to the next course. Might make it a bit harder for him to sign up, as to have enough cash on him would require a trip to the ATM (aka hole-in-the-wall) which might be enough for him to have second thoughts and snap out of the moment.

Also, CC charges can be rejected by the card owner. Would be a good thing for people who walk out of the course early. I believe the bank will be on the side of the customer, but I'm not an expert in this area.

Just an idea or two.

John

news, but you've lost him. Just like I lost my fiancee.

Once someone does something that stupid in a relationship, there's no use in hanging on.

You'll NEVER be able to trust his judgement and competencies in making decisions because this one BIG fuck-up will loom over everything.

I wish it wasn't true but it is.

I had similar problems.

Thinking I could change things with an already-brainwashed fiancee was the first mistake.

Take your lick and move on. Either way, he'll never forgive you for posting to Rick Ross.




I'm afraid Vic-Luc is right.

I just hung up with him. It was a mistake. I never should have spoken with him, it was wrong to believe I was past all the hurt. I'm not. Exactly what Vic-luc said, as soon as he made this decision I knew it was over. We were already having problems, we were at a shaky moment. Then, Landmark. And I walked away then, I told him I can't handle this if you're going to ignore everything I've told you about this place and take part in this ridiculous stuff. So he saw that as a rejection, of course, which it was, but I wanted him to turn around and say, what, are you crazy? Lose you over this bullshit???!!!

But he didn't.

Now he's very detached. He's detached from my anger, my pain, and of course the fact that he knows I think he's weak. He can't let himself remember the love we had once, so he tells me that when he remembers it, he's just a little bit sad. Just a little bit.

My heart is in the gutter. It's been pulverized by this, and now I have to scrape it up and reshape it, and believe that I can trust the next person who pledges such a deep love to me.

Meanwhile he's just fine with Landmark, though yes he can see it's a little "weird" (a little!!), but he wants further coaching on how to stay in the moment and listen. He can kind of see he's being fleeced, but he doesn't seem to care.

I don't recognize this person.

Then I get a notice from the guy who was buying my travel trailer saying he no longer wants to buy it -- which is horrible news.

I'm having a terrible horrible no good very bad day, people. Everyone say, oh poor you. Poor me.

Goodnight all

Awww .... you poor chook! (as we say in Australia)

Is it really as bad as the Day of the Zombies? ... being brain dead and all?

John

Yes, my ex is brain dead.

Actually, I just can't get my mind around it. He just seems to be lacking critical thinking skills, or the desire to really pursue truth rigorously. He seems happy to believe what Landmark tells him, or not to question it much. He also doesn't see any problems with this! I'm horrified by it. It's one thing to spend time hanging out in cafes debating all sorts of ideas you might not agree with, learning new ideas. It's another to be programmed with ideas you're unsure about for large amounts of money.

But he says he's going back to Landmark because he got something out of it. He says he saw how it "gives people their lives back."

God. I have so many problems with this. All I can think of is . . . what kind of people can "get their lives back" in one expensive weekend?

But I must be wrong . . . surely these epiphanies and cathartic breakthroughs are worth something, right? And maybe they have lasting effects.

But meanwhile, he's telling me that nothing matters, nothing we do matters in the universal scheme of things. Well, how does he know that? Who says? Landmark? How the hell do they know? It's a concept, not a truth, because no one knows. I pointed that out to him and he agreed, but seemed non-plussed by the fact he'd just been spouting jargon as truth.

Apparently he had such a "breakthrough" that nothing can faze him, nothing can convince him that it might be better to seek further awareness in other less expensive paths, with less mind control and greedy sleazy madness.

So what can I say to that? Nothing. Landmark gave him something he never had, and also something I couldn't give him, and it was worth more to him than I was.

So there you go.

Actually, you can have cathartic experiences without Landmark. Just inhale and exhale deeply for about 5 minutes and that ought to do it. Makes you a little dizzy, though.

Of course, you still have to face gritty reality when you've stopped. No wonder they would prefer to go back to have their ears tickled again with what they want to hear. Just like a drug user going back for another fix ... anything to escape reality.

John

Oh, vlinden, don't underestimate yourself - saying landmark gave him something you couldn't. Landmark used slick deception to fool him into thinking (hallucinating) that he got something great. He's flying high on a big fat lie now.

I can imagine how you feel though. I worked hard to "support" my sister to sign up for an lgat, and lo and behold, she listened to me. However, the joke was on me because once they got their claws and programs into her she was no longer interested in listening to me when I sounded the alarm that the lgat wasn't on the up & up. In fact, she dismisses me now by saying that *I* am brainwashed by anti-cult people and ideas!

As far as I'm concerned, she's gone for good. I lost a sister to an lgat. But I realize that it's not a reflection on me or our relationship over the years, rather it's a testament to the destructive power of lgats.

I am no match for the lgat con. I have seen that clearly now for several years with my sister, and with another ex-friend who is in the clutches of what might as well be an lgat, it's just not formalized.

Just my 2 cents,
skeptic

In some ways this website is keeping me locked in to my ex, in other ways it is saving my life. I just need to write what I'm going through because I can't do anything but think about it. Writing is cathartic, so excuse me if I ramble a little.

I spoke with a good friend of mine from high school last night, she's known me for almost 20 years. She's just been through a bad divorce and we talked about the irrational world of the heart, and the hell-realm of heart break, and the terrifying moment for her when she realized she had no control over her heart at all.

When I told her what est was, what Landmark is, she was horrified, though she also had to laugh when I explained the jargon and the people getting up and weeping into the microphone. Of course she found it impossible to imagine doing that with strangers. It runs counter to who she is, just like me. It's just embarrassing and distasteful. And she had a horrible childhood with an abusive father. Much worse than my ex who, despite his physical problems, had family support and love. But she doesn't need to spend $550 to see what's obvious in a weekend, she knows how her father has hurt her and shaped her life, and she looks to her closest friends and family to help her understand and accept and enjoy her world. She probably would benefit from seeing a qualified therapist over a long period, but actually, she does pretty well working through her pain. We help each other. She's a very strong woman, and even though she falls into pits sometimes and becomes depressed, she fights her way out on her own, and becomes stronger for it every time. I've seen this. She doesn't have illusions about life, she knows it's hard, and there are no Big Answers, and she prides herself on surviving well and being her own person. She has natural integrity (doesn't need a lesson on it, thanks) and is a really good friend. I'm proud of her. She is SO much stronger than my ex.

This morning I was up before dawn thinking about my ex, and realizing with new clarity just how shocking is his lack of critical thinking, how weak is his character that he could shell out so much money and walk into LE holding his blinders up, hoping for immediate answers. And worse, finding them! And, like taking a new drug, finding relief from his pain. And then coming out of it with new acceptance of the fact that he just didn't want a commitment with me.

But, he did. He wanted it, but he was struggling with it. Struggle is okay, struggle leads to growth and strength. But since Landmark he seems resigned to the loss of all that was beautiful and special between us. This rare thing, true love, this sparkling jewel that made ME willing to accept many things about him that were very difficult, including a genetic illness. I was willing to accept so many things.

But he has a "hard time with commitment," and he's just going to give into it now, give into his fears, and throw away this love and hurt me terribly because it's not easy for him to do otherwise. He's a child. He's not a man.

Landmark seems like a philosophy that tells him nothing matters and gives him mind control techniques so he doesn't have to feel as much, doesn't have to operate from the entirety of himself, only from some right-brained alpha state where he doesn't have to hear his own thoughts and feel his own fears.

But how does this really change a person? How does this really help? It's not helping a person to really learn and grow, it's giving them a method to be functional in a way that makes them feel better because it's like an alternate reality. They've sort of pushed their "old" selves down and away, or off to the side (in the left brain, maybe) and their "new" self is just "in the moment." I don't think this is healthy, or integrative.

The Landmark people who post on this site, always trying to apologize and promote LE, they seem so energetic and happy and certain of themselves and of LE. Their lives are GREAT, they've made HUGE changes and transformations. But I've seen that it's all on the surface. Whenever anyone scratches that surface, really probes deeper into these people, they're a MESS underneath all that brain washing. Maybe it isn't always true, but I've seen it every time someone from LE debates someone on this site.

Anyway, I felt better this morning, lying in bed and seeing clearly what a fool I am for giving this shallow, screwed up person any more of my energy. I am a strong, complex, courageous and sane person and I deserve someone who is also this way.

But then I checked my email and saw that he never replied to the last letter I sent him, and my heart just caved in again. Caved in. Hollowed out, collapsed.

This is going to be a long road.

It's like a marathon. Just pace yourself so you don't burn out.

John