There is a good video called "the century of self" out there online that you can watch for free. It's about the brainwashing of society, its evolution from the 1920's through the use of marketing, how the government has been involved, and also tells about Werner's Est and the human potential movements and how they haven't worked, etc. I found it to be very insightful. It tells how most people get involved w/ these techniques as a means to help themselves, and these groups thrive off of people's desires to do so, when really all they are actually doing is getting everyone to conform to rules, and rules to create societies that will follow those rules.

It's a rather long documentary though broken into 4 parts...I think 4 hours in total....but it explains A LOT! I think Werner's est comes up in the 3rd hour of it.

[best.online.docus.googlepages.com]

is the link to the documentary page...that particular video is under "anthropology" but there are also a lot of other really interesting videos on there that you can watch for free as well.

Let me know what your thoughts are on the video if you check it out.

Perhaps it was based on this excellent series of articles from the Washington Post in 1997?

[www.washingtonpost.com]


Ellen

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ms_kiki_s_nutkin
There is a good video called "the century of self" out there online that you can watch for free. It's about the brainwashing of society, its evolution from the 1920's through the use of marketing, how the government has been involved, and also tells about Werner's Est and the human potential movements and how they haven't worked, etc. I found it to be very insightful. It tells how most people get involved w/ these techniques as a means to help themselves, and these groups thrive off of people's desires to do so, when really all they are actually doing is getting everyone to conform to rules, and rules to create societies that will follow those rules.

It's a rather long documentary though broken into 4 parts...I think 4 hours in total....but it explains A LOT! I think Werner's est comes up in the 3rd hour of it.

[best.online.docus.googlepages.com]

is the link to the documentary page...that particular video is under "anthropology" but there are also a lot of other really interesting videos on there that you can watch for free as well.

Let me know what your thoughts are on the video if you check it out.

Didn't find it very good. A pseudo-socialist view that blames Freudian psychology for supposed modern problems. And uses Werner Erhard as a source for it's views.

I found it an interesting take on things. If you want to see something really good go back to the site and check out the BBC documentary on Scientology. I now think of Scientologist as a freaking Goon Squad. If they don't like someone they just outright try to destroy them.

Has Landmark ever tried to destroy a person, other than in Litigation? I am curious to know, since Weener took some of Scientology's way of doing things.

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Zorro
I found it an interesting take on things. If you want to see something really good go back to the site and check out the BBC documentary on Scientology. I now think of Scientologist as a freaking Goon Squad. If they don't like someone they just outright try to destroy them.

Has Landmark ever tried to destroy a person, other than in Litigation? I am curious to know, since Weener took some of Scientology's way of doing things.

I don't think you could point to a specific instance that anything Werner Erhard or his followers have done compares to what the scientologists have done but, at its core, the Landmark programs are designed to destroy a whole sub-set of people in certain ways beneficial to Werner and to his organisation. They are designed to make people dependent and fearful in psychologically manipulative ways. They are designed to make them unpleasant or repellent to outsiders so that they become increasingly focussed on other members for companionship and social support. They are designed to undermine the followers sense of self and of reality outside the group which makes them more and more insane over time. No, Landmarkers are again a mere shadow of the virulence of the "mother cult," but they do reflect the same narcissism and arrogance, albeit in a less vivid pronouncement. Werner Erhard himself was said to refer to his programs as "Scientology-lite" or "Scientology without the woo-woo."


Ellen

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elena
I don't think you could point to a specific instance that anything Werner Erhard or his followers have done compares to what the scientologists have done but, at its core, the Landmark programs are designed to destroy a whole sub-set of people in certain ways beneficial to Werner and to his organisation. They are designed to make people dependent and fearful in psychologically manipulative ways. They are designed to make them unpleasant or repellent to outsiders so that they become increasingly focussed on other members for companionship and social support. They are designed to undermine the followers sense of self and of reality outside the group which makes them more and more insane over time.

Very well put Ellen you pretty much summed up what happens to a person in Landmark when looking back at the experience and now in my case from the outside. I can identify exactly what your talking about.

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Zorro


Very well put Ellen you pretty much summed up what happens to a person in Landmark when looking back at the experience and now in my case from the outside. I can identify exactly what your talking about.

I am so very sorry this has happened to you Zorro. I blame myself and all the other people who should have fought harder and been more persistent in getting the word out beginning thirty years ago when these slicksters began peddling their snake-oil. I thought the whole thing had gone away after the "60 Minutes" segment in 1991 or earlier when the parody "Semi-Tough" made mincemeat of Werner Erhard. I remember thinking "good riddance." I really wonder how many people would get involved in these silly programs if they knew the history of the people who started them. Can you think of any way you might have avoided the whole thing? I think there should be classes taught in the schools on how to spot a cult or cult-like organisation. At least you can look at your involvement as a back-akwards education in mind control, covert persuasion, and coercive influence. Have you read Cialdini's book?


Ellen

I agree with Zorro. I thought Ellen's summary of what lgats do to people is right on target. I picked up a book about the public relations industry the other day, titled "Toxic Sludge is Good For You!", subtitled, "Lies, Damn Lies and the Public Relations Industry", written by John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton. It reminds me of the lgat industry. "The best PR is never noticed" is an unwritten slogan of the trade. From the introduction, by Mark Dowie: "PR has become a communications medium in its own right, an industry designed to alter perception, reshape reality and manufacture consent."

From the book:

"Aristotle recognized that rhetoric could be used to mislead as well as to enlighten the public. Persuasive speakers could lead their audience into unwise choices. For this reason, he argued that rhetoric should be widely taught and understood, so that the wise members of society would be able to contend effectively with the rhetoric of the unwise. Society would be best served if the public could choose from a range of contending arguments, and if people were trained in the skills necessary to recognize manipulative uses of rhetoric.

"Aristotle's analysis is over 2,300 years old, but it offers the best solution that we have found to the problem of democracy in our own age - the age of public relations. Today's opinion manipulation industry is a powerful giant, but like Goliath, it is a giant with a fatal weakness. When the public is educated about its techniques, it often loses its ability to mislead and manipulate."

"Christopher Gadsen, another American revolutionary, argued that it was easier to stop the work of "crafty, dissembling, insinuating men" before rather than after they "carry their point against you."

" . . . the PR industry seeks to manipulate public opinion and government policy. But it can only manipulate while it remains invisible."

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elena

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Zorro


Very well put Ellen you pretty much summed up what happens to a person in Landmark when looking back at the experience and now in my case from the outside. I can identify exactly what your talking about.

I am so very sorry this has happened to you Zorro. I blame myself and all the other people who should have fought harder and been more persistent in getting the word out beginning thirty years ago when these slicksters began peddling their snake-oil. I thought the whole thing had gone away after the "60 Minutes" segment in 1991 or earlier when the parody "Semi-Tough" made mincemeat of Werner Erhard. I remember thinking "good riddance." I really wonder how many people would get involved in these silly programs if they knew the history of the people who started them. Can you think of any way you might have avoided the whole thing? I think there should be classes taught in the schools on how to spot a cult or cult-like organisation. At least you can look at your involvement as a back-akwards education in mind control, covert persuasion, and coercive influence. Have you read Cialdini's book?


Ellen

Ellen,

Don't blame yourself. You all must have done a pretty good job back in the day since I wasn't even aware of such things until I had my encounter with them last fall. Maybe you all should regroup and join us in the fight against them. What ever you all did back then must have knocked them out pretty well. With the way things are today it probably wouldn't take much for public opinion to turn against them again.

The best way that I could have avoided the whole mess is to have done my research and not just blindly take the advice of someone who was my friend. If I had done research and found this web site and others I would have stayed away. Funny thing is the Lekkie that got me into it won't even retrun my phone calls now....maybe the person found this site and figured out who I was and feels guilty or something.

Ellen, PM me.