I think the 2020 idea was just thrown out to all of landmarkia just to feed and energize the recrutiment and volunteering frenzy.
Throw out a date, it sounds like a goal...just a big assed scam to keep the drones working over time as hard as they can go, for however long the momentum can be maintained.
I doubt that the landmarkia handlers are stupid enough to believe that they can infect the planet in 12 years. The sheep won't be thinking of this however, they're too energized and blinded by the grandiosity of the goal, as intended.

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ON2 LF
I think the 2020 idea was just thrown out to all of landmarkia just to feed and energize the recrutiment and volunteering frenzy.
Throw out a date, it sounds like a goal...just a big assed scam to keep the drones working over time as hard as they can go, for however long the momentum can be maintained.
I doubt that the landmarkia handlers are stupid enough to believe that they can infect the planet in 12 years. The sheep won't be thinking of this however, they're too energized and blinded by the grandiosity of the goal, as intended.

Well, this is identical to the unachieved goals of the Hunger Project as stated by Werner Erhard of "ending world hunger by 1997."

And the Hunger Project is thriving.

Financially.

Still. Since the 70s.

Wow. I still can't believe this thread. Good for you, Ex on outing him.

While I read through Boontahoe's assertions and arguments I just couldn't stop shaking my head. However there was one line that especially stuck out as ridiculous to me:

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How can we be so blatantly offensive and unkind to one another and, in the same breath, disclaim that we have much to learn about becoming better human beings?

That question be far more appropriate to ask of an LGAT facilitator or owner, than of the users of this board.

Unreal!
A hunger project that has kept its founder from hunger...

Back in town and eager to bask in your thoughtful replies. . .

Some great thoughts here and some honest differences of experience/opinion. And, some passionate (and perhaps not so well-considered) cyber-bullying.

But, I had no thoughts whatsoever toward "enrolling" anyone in an LGAT here. And, I had zero hope that anyone who was truly carried away in their hatred of LGATS would respond with temperance. I expected that the haters would keep on hating (and post liberally with malevolence) and that the others might silently consider my thoughts without posting replies.

A couple of points of clarification:

I am not an "owner" of an LGAT. I am an involved graduate of the non-profit LGAT, the Great Life Foundation (there are no owners.) In my experience, that particular LGAT meets Blue Pill's description of what an LGAT could be if it weren't turned toward the greater grandeur of it's founders. I'm not any more an "owner" or a "founder" than anyone else whose graduated from that LGAT and you simply can't label me as a mindless devotee trolling for enrollments. I would have to be delusional to think that this is the best place to find new converts to an LGAT.

My perspective and many of your perspectives are vastly different. I believe that no one who knew me on either side of this debate could claim that I have limited experience of LGATs. I've been around and through them for well over a decade. I think I've seen them from many angles and I have good perspective. However, I differ from most here in a couple of ways, I believe:

1. I have no reason to want to hate LGATs. I haven't "lost" relationships, loved ones or money to an LGAT. The net result of the LGAT experience in my life over the last ten years has been good for my family, good for my marriage, good for my extended family and good for my career and friendships.

2. I also have no reason to want to hate them because I'm still nominally involved after so many years. I have no motivation to nullify the experience because I would be nullifying something that I hold out as doing myself and my family good. If I had left or had been thrown out, I might have a need to disparage LGATs that would overpower the good I saw created there, but that hasn't happened.

3. While I have seen the human frailties of Hans and Sally Berger, and while I can see that they are probably cranks and maybe even criminals, the net result of their involvement in my life has been overwhelmingly positive. I want nothing to do with them, but I haven't been pushed into such a corner that my own self-image requires that I villify them. They can remain complicated and screwy folks (kinda like you and I) and I don't have to stick them in the box yet and slap on a label.

Also, while I think that I was originally involved with one of the more dangerous LGATs (certainly more dangerous than the semi-corporate Landmark Forum -- in my opinion,) myself and dozens upon dozens of my family and friends got away with little to no damage. So, I can see the danger but I can also see the upside. No matter how much you guys pound on me for that, it's unlikely that I'll ever be "converted" to your dire and absolute points of view. I think that LGATs, and Impact in particular, are a mixed bag. (And, when you think about it, isn't that the most common way in life? Aren't most things a mixed bag?) It's so rare that something's purely good (like Mother Theresa -- nevermind. Now there's some question as to whether she really was all that faithful. . .) It's equally rare that something's purley evil (like Adolf Hitler, perhaps.) Most often in life, it's some of both. Good and evil. Are you all so certain that these LGATs (despite the fervent support of hundreds of thousands of graduates) are all bad? That would seem rare and unlikely. It's far more likely that many of the participants in this discussion forum NEED the LGATs to be bad, sick and wrong and that they're so passionate about them being evil because they NEED to invalidate their LGAT experience (or to validate their victim-hood at the hands of a wayward family member or spouse) and from that NEED, perhaps, arises this level of single-minded venom.

Otherwise, I have a hard time explaining why so many obviously intelligent people would spend so much time trying to burn them at the stake. It's downright strange. Even if the LGATs are bad and misled, you are all OUT of them. Why pour so much of your passion into a discussion board where you go back and forth supporting one another in your opposition of something that's not even in your life anymore? It seems a mite unproductive.

This can't be anyone's idea of "serving humanity" by writing scathing (and very repetitive) rhetoric against LGATs? The hatred of Landmark and Impact and PSI etc. only had to be posted once to serve the purpose of forewarning possible LGAT attendees. It didn't have to be written ten thousand times to be effective. Plus, if you were intent on "serving humanity," I would think that a trip down to volunteer at the local soup kitchen or baking cupcakes for the church bake sale would have a much greater impact than going back and forth ad infinitum with your anti-LGAT friends? Or am I missing something important here?

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3. While I have seen the human frailties of Hans and Sally Berger, and while I can see that they are probably cranks and maybe even criminals, the net result of their involvement in my life has been overwhelmingly positive. I want nothing to do with them, but I haven't been pushed into such a corner that my own self-image requires that I villify them. They can remain complicated and screwy folks (kinda like you and I) and I don't have to stick them in the box yet and slap on a label.

Your assumption that our opposition to LGAT's is an issue of preserving a positive self image or rationalizing away a positive experience that we had at a training is ridiculous. By posting on this board we are hoping to make our experiences accessible to others so that they can avoid the very real damages that we and others have suffered as a result of our involvement with LGAT groups. You have been and continue to be an arrogant prick.

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boonetahoe
Are you all so certain that these LGATs (despite the fervent support of hundreds of thousands of graduates) are all bad?

You keep throwing around these large numbers, do you have any evidence that there are hundreds of thousands of supportive graduates? I rarely saw any Impact grads involved at the trainings unless they were currently enrolled in one of the TIT trainings or working on the office staff. After several years of making this observation it seemed apparent that unless someone was currently enrolled in a training, they were unlikely to staff or enroll new trainees. How do you define support?

You claimed to have evidence earlier, if that is the case then please post it. If it was collected in an accurate and unbiased manner then I will accept it and reevaluate my opinion of LGAT's as a whole. If you read my older posts you will see that I have defended LGAT apologists, like yourself, when they have posted well founded and factually based arguments. So far you have done the typical LGAT Trainer thing and made grand claims that you do not seem to be able to verify. Unlike the drones in the 4th day of Quest, we will not accept your word. In an academic community claims must be backed by evidence to be accepted. You claim to have gathered evidence, if that is truly the case then please post it.

My logic regarding LGAT's works something like this. I have read a lot of reports about Lifespring. Lifespring was guilty of numerous damages to trainees and numerous breaches in ethical conduct. This can all be verified using court documents and records compiled by independent reporting agencies. Impact, as a spin off of Lifespring, exhibits many of the same traits that made the original training so harmful. I have also personally seen many of the same breaches in ethical conduct that were associated with Lifespring and I even knew an individual who committed suicide under many of the same circumstances as the individual at Lifespring who's family sued and won a wrongful death suit against the company. Hans and Sally, as you know, have their own paper trail that documents over 20 instances where that have harmed or stolen from someone since they started training. What am I missing here?

>>Or am I missing something important here?<<

Yes.


You've answered your own question about why things are reposted and reposted.

I suppose you now beleive the kind/enlightened thing for us to have done, was to respond to your first posts and other questions and anyone else's with a, "Just keep rereading everything until you get it," message?

As for volunteer work to serve humanity, your assumptions about me or others here notwithstanding, I do far more of that than I do writing here, including several hours late last night, and I find this post from you to be insulting, especially in the light of what I have learned about how you "serve humanity" in your business practices away from Harmony/GLF.

You, in my experience of you here, are a fraud in every respect of the word.

Your public claim to be no more involved with an LGAT, or no more an owner of an LGAT, than anyone else who graduated from Impact/Haromny/GLF, especially given what you shared with me, is so dishonest that I am calling you on it here and now.

To be silent about that would be to be complicit in supporting your dishonest claims above.

I'll repeat: You are a liar and a fraud.

That is the self-evident result of your decade of "training."

Boonetahoe,

Didn't you mention earlier that Great Life posted their financial information for all to see? If so, where can I find it? You have mentioned the "non-profit" thing a few times. Many small non-profits act merely as tax shelters for dishonest owners. If I can track the cash from your financials then hopefully I can determine if Great Life is a true non-profit or an even more dishonest scheme that Hans and Sally's straight forward corporation.

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boonetahoe
1. I have no reason to want to hate LGATs. I haven't "lost" relationships, loved ones or money to an LGAT. The net result of the LGAT experience in my life over the last ten years has been good for my family, good for my marriage, good for my extended family and good for my career and friendships.

Oh boy, if I had a pound for every time i heard "i don't care about other people, this is good for me"....

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2. I also have no reason to want to hate them because I'm still nominally involved after so many years.

How selfless....a man of principles.

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3. While I have seen the human frailties of Hans and Sally Berger, and while I can see that they are probably cranks and maybe even criminals, the net result of their involvement in my life has been overwhelmingly positive. I want nothing to do with them, but I haven't been pushed into such a corner that my own self-image requires that I villify them. They can remain complicated and screwy folks (kinda like you and I) and I don't have to stick them in the box yet and slap on a label.

Let me get this straight: you refuse to complain about criminals because you owe them something? Oh i see now. It's like the mob. Plus, cult leader are kinda like YOU, don't include me

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boonetahoe
Are you all so certain that these LGATs (despite the fervent support of hundreds of thousands of graduates) are all bad?

yes we are. what part of 'cults are bad' did you not understand?