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I suppose that you'd have to agree that learning in life is a good thing and that the faster we achieve spiritual and psychological maturity, the better. Otherwise, why live examined lives at all?

So if an examined life = a good thing, then a more examine life = an even better thing.

These trainings often accelerate clarity and experience. In my experience, they condense life experience and heighten the learning moments.

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So if an examined life = a good thing, then a more examine life = an even better thing.

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These trainings often accelerate clarity and experience. In my experience, they condense life experience and heighten the learning moments.

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"ON2 LF"

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I suppose that you'd have to agree that learning in life is a good thing and that the faster we achieve spiritual and psychological maturity, the better. Otherwise, why live examined lives at all?

So if an examined life = a good thing, then a more examine life = an even better thing.

These trainings often accelerate clarity and experience. In my experience, they condense life experience and heighten the learning moments.

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Learning in life is indeed a good thing, but I don't agree that we NEED to achieve spiritual and psychological maturity ASAP, in fact, I think rapid maturity on these levels are impossible. As impossible as making a three year old grow into a twenty year olds' body in a brief span of time.
I think we mistakenly think that the spiritual and psychological aspects of our humanity can be boosted with philosophical growth hormone, only because both are invisible and cannot be assessed honestly as having 'grown' or not.

I didn't imply that we "need" to reach maturity ASAP. I merely suggested that our joy in life will mirror our spiritual and psychological gains. On the extreme, existing in ignorance and bigotry isn't probably the most joy-filled way of living. On the other extreme, becoming a peaceful and wise soul is generally a more joy-filled life.

I believe that we tend to accumulate wisdom through life's experiences -- depending on how much we're willing to risk and how much we're willing to learn. If I ensconce myself in my beliefs and my comfort zones, I may protect my ego, but I won't experience much growth. If I avoid relationships, I may not get hurt, but I won't be pushed to love and compromise and see things from anothers' perspective. In short, I believe that it's unreasonable to suggest that people can only grow as fast as their default lives will allow. We definitely can stretch and accelerate our inner-growth if we're willing to be vulnerable (and willing to open our fixed beliefs up to review.)

I would also suggest that our level of spiritual and psychological maturity can absolutely be measured by taking count of our results in life. Heightened levels of patience, acceptance, openness, humility, etc. definitely lead to higher levels of financial success, physical fitness, relationship success and spiritual contentedness. I don't believe that our life results exist in complete independence from our level of personal growth. (Of course, that's not exactly what you were saying either.)

I have around nine hundred employees who work for my companies or their clients and the one common denominator among those who are successful at work is that they are more self-aware. They are open, they take accountability, they are willing to risk and they are humble enough to take measure of their failures. At the same time, I watch as more-closed and less-aware people sabotage their careers and spin their wheels. I can't resolve my life experience with the notion that spiritual and psychological maturity doesn't manifest itself in measurable ways.

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A legitimate approach to life and living, NATURALLY causes self examination, no need for an LGAT.

I'm curious as to what you mean here. To be clear, this natural approach to life. . . would it include "traditional" forms of self-betterment such as education, religion, physical fitness, therapy??

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Those who choose to not grow, mature, or become 'all they can or want to be', are still very real members of humanity and are still unique beings.

Certainly. You'd have to be a monster to think otherwise.

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The choice is theirs to make, and contrary to Socrates' personal philosophy, any life [i:8af5fb81d0][b:8af5fb81d0]is[/b:8af5fb81d0][/i:8af5fb81d0] worth living whether it is examined to the same extent as some choose to examine life, or not. Who the hell was he to make that judgement?
Socrates had no right to make that call, he was just a man, not God.

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OK, but YOU brought up Socrates. Not me. I don't buy that statement either. I'm sure my dogs' lives are worth living and they're way short in the "examined life" department. (Not to suggest that clueless people are anything like Boxers.)


As for the "if then" logic,

So if an examined life = a good thing, then a more examine life = an even better thing.


Whose notion of what 'an examined life' is or is not, propels this process?

I suppose it would be up to the individual. Each of us are capable of describing the lives we want. We all have this internal barometer of whether or not we're happy by our standards. If we're reaching those results, or making progress toward those results, that's probably success.

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Who has the authority to approve the depth to which one has examined their life, as being sufficient or not?
Who or what is that so-called authority comparing a person to?

You're implying that the LGAT highjacks this process and dictates what a person should become. That's not true of all LGATs. You may be generalizing and degrading your argument (if I may be so bold.)

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Even more worthy of consideration is [b:8af5fb81d0][i:8af5fb81d0]who[/i:8af5fb81d0][/b:8af5fb81d0] is directing the 'examination of life' in the LGAT? Very murky waters there, all due to the a murky philosophy, "an unexamined life is not worth living".

I'd agree if that were the philosophy of the LGATs. I've never heard it mentioned in a training.

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It sounds great and even deceptively profound, but it is still a personal judgement on quality or value of life. Maybe Socrates didn't mean anything more than to express an opinion, but his statement seems to have been subjected to misapplication as a sacred philosophical doctrine.

These trainings often accelerate clarity and experience. In my experience, they condense life experience and heighten the learning moments.

How do you condense life experience which you haven't lived yet? Do the trainings accelerate clarity and experience, or do these trainings affect one's perceptual processes? Define clarity.
I can see how conditions in which to learn may be optimized in some circumstances, but these conditions are achievable without any specific setting or a specific philosophy, and certainly without a specific $$ value.

I guess you'd condense life experience by taking risk, increasing vulnerability, holding yourself to honesty and experiencing other people as they go through the same process. Life can absolutely come at you fast or slow. Going through a divorce (if you've ever done that) can bring on lots of life lessons very quickly. Experiencing death, birth, war, love, treachery etc. can all be intense learning experiences. We learn much faster during intense emotional experiences. The LGAT training is just that: it's an intense environment where intense learning can take place. This isn't new news. We've been self-educating for eons of time.

Many don't like LGATs and I would suggest that this is for a couple of reasons.

1. Because so many of the LGAT trainings are inherently hypocritical. The charismatic personalities are often buried in their own dysfunction and (once they're uncovered as the demon-ridden souls they are,) they don't stand up well to examination.

2. (And this should probably be number one,) people don't like to be told that they're life could be better than it is. We find that statement wholly offensive. We'd rather stand firm in our belief that our life is ideal or at least OK. Having some kooky class where we're yelled at for being clueless is just about the last thing we want to do. People hate (HATE!) to be wrong. These LGATs are all about digging up the ways that we're wrong. It's no mystery why people (like some on this board) would vociferously object to them. (With that said, please refer back to number one. I realize that these trainings are dangerous, too.)

3. And, most vehement of all are those people who made it part way. They went deep enough into an LGAT to experiencing some overbearing SOB yelling at them that they were deeply in self-delusion. But, they quit before they broke through to accepting that possiblity. Those folks need to destroy that LGAT. The alternative is to let the suggestion stand that their life story, their beliefs about their own life, are questionable. And, to make matters even worse, the LGAT and their loudmouth trainer are "soft targets." As mentioned, these people and organizations have their share of sickness. It's fairly easy to tear them down.

Anyway -- I've really enjoyed the chat. It's good to be reminded that there's a reasonable, opposing perspective that's worth weighing as we do this LGAT thing.

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We learn much faster during intense emotional experiences. The LGAT training is just that: it's an intense environment where intense learning can take place. This isn't new news. We've been self-educating for eons of time.

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boonetahoe
I didn't imply that we "need" to reach maturity ASAP. I merely suggested that our joy in life will mirror our spiritual and psychological gains. On the extreme, existing in ignorance and bigotry isn't probably the most joy-filled way of living. On the other extreme, becoming a peaceful and wise soul is generally a more joy-filled life.

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boonetahoe

I suppose it would be up to the individual. Each of us are capable of describing the lives we want. We all have this internal barometer of whether or not we're happy by our standards. If we're reaching those results, or making progress toward those results, that's probably success.


These trainings often accelerate clarity and experience. In my experience, they condense life experience and heighten the learning moments.

I guess you'd condense life experience by taking risk, increasing vulnerability, holding yourself to honesty and experiencing other people as they go through the same process. Life can absolutely come at you fast or slow. Going through a divorce (if you've ever done that) can bring on lots of life lessons very quickly. Experiencing death, birth, war, love, treachery etc. can all be intense learning experiences. We learn much faster during intense emotional experiences. The LGAT training is just that: it's an intense environment where intense learning can take place. This isn't new news. We've been self-educating for eons of time.

Many don't like LGATs and I would suggest that this is for a couple of reasons.

1. Because so many of the LGAT trainings are inherently hypocritical. The charismatic personalities are often buried in their own dysfunction and (once they're uncovered as the demon-ridden souls they are,) they don't stand up well to examination.

2. (And this should probably be number one,) people don't like to be told that they're life could be better than it is. We find that statement wholly offensive. We'd rather stand firm in our belief that our life is ideal or at least OK. Having some kooky class where we're yelled at for being clueless is just about the last thing we want to do. People hate (HATE!) to be wrong. These LGATs are all about digging up the ways that we're wrong. It's no mystery why people (like some on this board) would vociferously object to them. (With that said, please refer back to number one. I realize that these trainings are dangerous, too.)

3. And, most vehement of all are those people who made it part way. They went deep enough into an LGAT to experiencing some overbearing SOB yelling at them that they were deeply in self-delusion. But, they quit before they broke through to accepting that possiblity. Those folks need to destroy that LGAT. The alternative is to let the suggestion stand that their life story, their beliefs about their own life, are questionable. And, to make matters even worse, the LGAT and their loudmouth trainer are "soft targets." As mentioned, these people and organizations have their share of sickness. It's fairly easy to tear them down.

Anyway -- I've really enjoyed the chat. It's good to be reminded that there's a reasonable, opposing perspective that's worth weighing as we do this LGAT thing.

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Vic-Luc
You noticed how quickly boonetahoe bolted and said thanks for the chat when the pro-LE argument was advanced, and the logic didn't hold up?

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boonetahoe

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Vic-Luc
You noticed how quickly boonetahoe bolted and said thanks for the chat when the pro-LE argument was advanced, and the logic didn't hold up?

Haven't bolted yet. Still here.

By the way, I've never experienced LE.

In response to MartinH, I have high confidence that long-lasting results can come out of the learning environs of the LGAT. In my mind, I know it for a fact.

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(Again, I'm just as wary as anyone about the opportunity for abuse of that format. So, I'm not a blanket supporter of LGATs.)

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ON2 LF
One size and one philosophy DOES NOT do the trick.