Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: Rswinters ()
Date: June 25, 2007 04:53PM

I have cut this paragraph from Klemmers website where they have a short Bio of Brian Klemmer.
”Our workshops produce results for corporations and individuals because they explore beliefs around commitment, loyalty, communication, honesty, success, leadership and many other key issues. Once people "see" things differently, they automatically behave differently. This is what distinguishes us from purely "motivational" work which produces a temporary high. People are inspired, but because it is experiential they literally view life differently, and it lasts. Sustainable results are a key to change.”
Brian, here is my question for you since you made this bold statement that I am calling you on. I have been through all of your seminars. I have staffed many of your seminars also.
I pursued a remarriage to a women I divorced because I could not deal with her abusive behavior. I went to your seminar and was “WOWED” by having my belief systems revealed in me. I took your seminars and your companies philosophy full on in my life as I got my ex-wife to attend your seminars at my covering them for her financially. Her emotional response to the first seminar gave me great hope of having her face herself and her abusive relational behavior that she has in a intimate and a within a marriage environment. I remarried her 2 weeks after her attending her first seminar. I was getting ready to attend the last Klemmer one for myself.
I married my ex-wife without seeing her behavior change while trusting this integrity of your company to deal with my ex-wife as you did with me. I chose to face myself, and my behavior that I brought to our relationship. At the beginning of my last Klemmer seminar when we began to run into the same relational crap that I divorced her on in our first marriage. Well, I was fed up and wanted to divorce her last year only 3 months after our remarriage. The coaching I was receiving in my last Klemmer seminar coaching did align with this supposed integrity of this quoted paragraph above. I let my coaching influence me to focus on the marriage, and not myself in the relationship.
You declare yourself to be a Christian with a belief in God. I trusted your company and its supposed integrity in what was stated in the paragraph I copied above. I trusted your company to call my wife on her abusive behavior and not to encourage it. I let your company develop a mindset in me that divorce was not an option, and in my wife’s case her mindset was influenced by your company that divorce is the option.
Well, I was dead wrong. Your company is not a company of integrity, nor is it grounded on anything biblical or Godly. No company that encourages a women to break a commitment to go to professional marriage counseling and let the professionals sort out a marriage in conflict. In my opinion any company or staff from the company who influences a women to break such a commitment no matter what you want to say around it. I call It having “NO INTEGRITY” and definitely not Christian or Godly.
I am not saying that I don’t have things needing to be changed. I was ready and willing to take this on within professional marriage counseling with my wife. Thanks to you and your companies powerful influence on my wife. She now is more narcissistic, hedonistic, and humanistic than ever before. Thanks to Klemmer & Associates seminars and influence upon her life.
Klemmer is based on the New Age Movement that is on the uprise in our country with its universal view of god. This is definitely not the same view as the biblical view of God in the bible.
After the time that my wife attended here third level seminar in Klemmer. Our conflicts really began to heat up, and became extremely destructive between us. My Klemmer experience was driving me to create a mutual marriage and to focus on her being my wife. My wife’s Klemmer experience was making her more selfish, and self focused on only her needs, and desires while running over mine.
Only now she gained Klemmers slimy language that she used to twist, and manipulate our disagreements with. She already had that down pat prior to her going to Klemmer. It was one of the main reasons that I divorced her the first time. I put it all on the line as I remarried her hoping that Klemmer would confront this abusive relational behavior that is within her, and not reinforce it as in her case.
I remarried my wife without waiting for her behavior to show the results that showed a mutual relationship between us. I trusted Klemmer to confront that in her, just as it did in me. I believed in Klemmer and its promises of creating a wonderful marriage with her.
Heck if Klemmer would have created in my wife a person that took responsibility for what she brought to a relational conflict as it did in me. We would have been able to create a marriage on mutuality.
I found out the hard way, and with much destruction across the whole gammit of my life from this failed second marriage and all the peripheral damage that should never have been pursued by me.
I would never have remarried my ex-wife if it was not for Klemmer & Associates seminars and all of the empty promises that they make in regards to relational aspects.
When my wife flipped from having an us focus to a her focus after her third seminar. The resulting relational anguish from this flip flop in her led to some very ugly interactions with her, and the Klemmer staff around this issue.
Klemmers staff member coaching my wife chose to support my wife and her self focus versus encouraging her to follow through on her commitments to go to professional marriage counseling. She encouraged her to stand in a viewpoint of being a victim in our marital turmoil.
I confronted this staff member on the contradicting coaching that I received when I attended Klemmers last seminar. I actually wanted to divorce her back then. I was coached to focus on marriage. I confronted her coach on how contradicting her coaching was with my wife, and how it was creating a relational turmoil as my wife was being influenced to have a self focus versus a we focus.
Well, it is all in the past now. I just received the court papers that my wife has filed for divorce from me. My wife has been shut down in all levels of communication with me since the start of her last Klemmer seminar last February.
Klemmer & Associates talks a lot of crap that it fails to deliver in dealing with relational conflicts. The paragraph at the beginning of this message is not worth the paper it is written on.
Wait, I forgot. In Klemmers perception it is all meaningless. So they can put whatever meaning they want on the definition of integrity. Sorry, I forgot that Klemmers philosophy allows for them to change up the meaning when, and however it fits their needs.
It is also what gets taught to their participants. What was I thinking.

Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: SaneAgain ()
Date: June 26, 2007 03:41AM

Rs, I am very sorry to hear about the divorce papers, and everything that has happened to you with your wife and Klemmer.

Seems you're on the very bad end of this point from the article you quoted:


5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.

To me it is part of their godly grandiosity, trying to control and manipulate any and all aspects of people's lives.

Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: Rswinters ()
Date: June 26, 2007 07:42AM

Rs, I am very sorry to hear about the divorce papers, and everything that has happened to you with your wife and Klemmer.

Seems you're on the very bad end of this point from the article you quoted:


5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.

To me it is part of their godly grandiosity, trying to control and manipulate any and all aspects of people's lives.

From Klemmers point of view. They are not accountable in anyway shape or form in what is created in their participants lives from applying their philosophy.

Unless of course it is a positive effect. Then they are all over taking the credit for it.

If my wife chose to apply Klemmers tools in a fashion that made our marriage work in a mutual manner. One where we did not control or manipulate each other.

I guarantee you would be reading a testimonie that gives full credit to Klemmer, and they would be using to promote, advertise, and sell seminars to new recruits. All you have to do is read the many testimonies that Klemmer uses to sell their seminars. It was the very aspects of the bad relationships getting supposedly worked out that hooked me.

I would not be surprised to dig into the peoples lives that gave these phenomenal results of Klemmers impact on their lives. Only problem is it is in the short run, as the emotional roller coaster is being ridden by these participants.

Well, when the rollercoaster ride stops, and hits the ground by being derailed by someone elses freedom of choice in a relationship. You won't hear these testimonies of how someone invested their all relationally and emotionally. Only to run into the other person choosing not to be relational and responsible relationally in creating a mutual relationship.

Relationship takes two people choosing to make it work. It only takes one to torpedo it, and cause it to fail.

My wife has chosen to not make it work after emotionally making a strong commitment to try and do so.

Klemmer supported me in pursuing a remarriage with her, and cheered me on in doing so.

Now Klemmer has flipped and has supported my wife in breaking her committment to professional marriage counseling, and have cheered her on in doing so.

What a farce. Klemmer is full of crap when it comes to what they say about relational aspects. They encourage narcissism, hedonism, and humanistic living.

If you are not open to this philosophy in your life. Klemmer will put you on the hidden pile heap of participants who have failed to embrace Klemmers life philosophy. They will whitewash the results by censoring these testimonies from being seen by potential participants.

Well, thank God for this sight. Rick Ross Institute is a formidable advocate of making people aware of the lies, and deceptions of Large Group Awareness Training Programs and their mind control, and brainwashing techniques used.

Please for the love of God. Dig, read, critically analyze the information out there. Before you move into a place of exposing yourself to companies like Klemmer and their messed philosophy for life.

Yes, it can produce what seems like unbelievable results in peoples lives.

But, at what cost? Read, read, read. You will see the high cost that is swept under the carpet relationally to accomplish these supposed amazing results.

Klemmer is not a company that operates with integrity. Especially within the context of relationships in turmoil needing professional counseling help to sort out the mess.

Klemmer chooses to operate as a company in this realm. Yes it seems to help some relationships. Yet in others it destroys them.

So Klemmer chooses to advertise how they can make relationships better. While what they are saying is roll the dice. If it works then we made it happen. If it fails it is you inability to apply our philosphy in the right way.

Either way, Klemmer is seen as the hero. Or the company just delivering tools and not accountable for how they get used within relationships.

What a Scam, and what a bunch of crap.

Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: Rswinters ()
Date: June 26, 2007 07:59AM

Within the context of relationships that are in turmoil. Klemmer & Associates is one huge scam artist as a company.

The bold statements that they make about relationships is full of crap.

Klemmer & Associates encourage divorce in participants who are in marital turmoil. They state they are supporting the participant who is choosing to divorce versus work through a conflict by making the relationship their intention.

They fail to see how supporting a participant to focus on being narcissistic in a marriage relationship is what turns into a catalyst for a marriage to end without attempting all means to save it.

They contradict themselves in coaching participants who are married and going through different time frames in seminars. Especially marriages in turmoil.

This happened in my case, and I have posted messages discussing it. Look up and read.

I have been being extremely bold, and vocal about the destructiveness of Klemmers seminars and their philosophy based on "the secret".

The results of applying Klemmer to my life has been beyond belief in the destructiveness from it in my life.

Which is why I am sharing so many posts, and with such passion.

My heart is to keep as many people as I possibly can from making the same mistake in embracing Klemmer as I did.

Steer clear of Klemmer.... Please for your sake steer clear.

There are many other ways of dealing with your core belief systems that are way cheaper, and much, much more healthy and balanced emotionally, relationally, and financially.

You just need to not take short cuts, and do the digging and research to find them.

No more short cuts emotionally for this man. I paid way to high of prices from Klemmers philosophy and its destructive application on my life.

Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: Rswinters ()
Date: June 26, 2007 08:04AM

Flor those who believe I have posted too many posts in exposing Klemmer.

Keep this in mind. The destruction from applying Klemmer in my life is what is driving my passion in exposing this LGAT.

So, if you want to consider something here. When you read my many posts on this website.

Remember. The volume and intensity of my posts do not even remotely come close to the destruction Klemmers philosphy has produced in my life by any means or comparison.

Yes it is that bad. The destruction is that severe.

You have no idea, nor can I communicate in a manner for you to understand.

Just take what little bit of empathy you may have in reading my messages.

Multiply the intensity of these posts. Then you may begin to scratch the surface of the destruction from Klemmers philosphy on my life.

Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: question lady ()
Date: June 26, 2007 08:14AM

Dear rswinters,

I am so sorry for the pain you are going through. The detructiveness of LGAT's on relationships of all sorts is truly staggering. The false promises that their methods will improve relationships makes it even worse. Thank you for all you have done to help prevent others from going down that path.

I wish there were a short cut through the pain. I don't think there is a short cut, but I do know there is healing on the other side.

You are in my prayers. May God's peace be with you.


Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: Rswinters ()
Date: June 26, 2007 08:29AM

If Klemmer & Associates operated with the supposed integrity that they advertise and brag about having.

I would have been screened out from being allowed to continue through all there courses. I would never have pursued a remarriage with my ex-wife. Because my first interaction with her after attending my first Klemmer seminar was one of her stating she did not want nothing to do with me. I divorced her less than a year before from not being able to deal with her emotional chaos in her life and how it affect those within immediate proximity as being married does. I would have kept going to professional counseling and sorted out my emotional issues within a healthy format. I would not have told my counselor that I did not want to continue unless he used Klemmers philosophy in our sessions. Which my counselor did not want allow even remotely in the sessions with me. I would have not made the huge very risky emotional, relational, or financial choices that I made as a direct result of Klemmers powerful emotional influence upon my life.

Yes, there would of been other issues from my self destructive aspects that are directly linked to my emotional unhealth.

But, to set the record straight I wrote on my release that I signed to attend Klemmers seminars. I wrote that I was in counseling, and my past divorces and emotional issues.

I have a copy of this release and what I wrote on it.

Klemmer was more interested in my money, and the money I paid for my soon to be ex-wife again.

Klemmer had no concern for he psychological implications of what was emotionally going on in my life, nor in my soon to be ex-wife’s life.

If Klemmer operated on the stated integrity that is boldly declared in the advertisements and what is shouted by other participants.

Here is the bottom line.

I would not have been allowed to attend their seminars because of the potential psychological damage that could, and in hindsight was created in me from Klemmers philosphy.

Which if this took place. I would never have applied Brian Klemmers million dollar formula on my life in such a relationally destructive manner by getting remarried to a women that I divorced from dealing with the relationally abusive behavior she shows up with in a marriage, or dating environment.

Yes, the formula does create unbelievable results. It created me getting remarried to a women who did not want anything to do with me from hurting her so much by divorcing her less than a year previously.

But, hey. I set my intention clear as Brian states and I leveraged a remarriage to an abusive women that I should of avoided like the plague in my life.

All this as a direct result of the powerful emotional influence of Klemmer & Associates on my life.

Only now since Klemmer as soaked me for all the money it can as I paid over 10 thousand for me, and almost 10 thousand for my soon to be ex-wife to attend all Klemmer seminars that has ultimately failed to produce what I set my intention on.

Creating a mutual marriage using Klemmer tools on creating relationship based on level and mutual ground between the two of us.

Klemmer failed to hold my wife responsible for what she showed up in our relational conflict by encouraging her to be abusive relationally to me. While calling it supporting her in accepting her greatness.

Well, they sure did get her to accept her greatness. It was only at the cost, and price tag of me is all.

Klemmer soaked all the money they could from us. There are no other seminars to attend.

INTEGRITY YOU SAY... I want nothing to do with this definition of integrity.

Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: Rswinters ()
Date: June 27, 2007 01:48AM

I posted this on another topic thread. But feel it is very relevant to anyone checking out Klemmer & Associates and are considering going to their seminars. STOP AND DO MORE RESEARCH AND READING ABOUT Large Group Awareness Training Programs. They all operate on the same premises at the foundational level. How they dress it is all that is different.
Here is the link to the other topic thread I posted this on.
Here is what I posted there.

If you have not done so yet? I encourage you to read the many topic threads on other LGAT's and look at this from a broader perspective in seeing all of these companies operating on the same foundational belief system.

They are so connected at the foundation of philosophy that it has been very beneficial for me to read the bigger picture.

It has brought much clarity to the lies, and the deceptions of the LGAT core beliefs and philosophies.

Wisdom and common sense will go along way in protecting us from psychological harm. If only we do not disconnect the internal warning system that is within ourselves.

Critical thinking. This is our early warning system. We need to leave it on, and not turn it off. Especially in regards to LGAT's.

Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: Rswinters ()
Date: June 27, 2007 03:30AM

For those who are deciding on attending Klemmer & Associates seminars.

Let me give you a few assignments to do first.

Before you make a decision to go.

dig and read as much as you can about Large Group Awareness Training Programs (LGAT's).

Dig and read all information. Not just the positive, but also the negative.

Keep your critical thinking turned off. Don't be conned into turning of your critical thinking by anyone.

Watch the secret without anyones infuence or direction in applying this philosphy. Leave your critcial thinking turned on as you watch it.

Watch this hilarious clip that someone posted on another thread. It was hilarious for me because of buying into this messed up philosphy and allowing my critical thinking to be turned off.

Here is link, and post after I watched this clip.

Posted: 06-26-2007 12:22 PM Post subject: Re: The Secret (a movie)



Oh my gosh. This was hilarious. If it was not for the fact that I bought into this crap philosphy and destroyed my life by applying it.

I would probably have watched this clip, and not found the humor in it.

I laughed so hard at the end of it. I got tears in my eyes.

Because even though this is extreme in making fun of "The Secret" philosphy.

The philosphy is so extreme that it needs to be dealt with in extreme ways.

Enjoy the clip.

Thanks caligari for posting it for us

Klemmer and Associates
Posted by: Rswinters ()
Date: June 27, 2007 03:31AM

link to clip didn't post right.

Here it is


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