Rswinters
Senior Member


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 348

Posted: 08-06-2007 11:29 PM Post subject:

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Save your money and avoid Klemmer. If you want to address core belief systems? Here you go...

Rswinters
Senior Member


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 342

Posted: 08-06-2007 11:26 PM Post subject: Klemmer & Associates claim of Christianity, and about Go

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If you want to deal with the concept of core belief systems from a biblical stand point?

Don't do Klemmers seminars. Even though they claim God is the one they identify as the creator. It is new age theology, and is based alot on what you will find in Scientology.

Here is a link to a very good resource that deals with core belief systems in a definitely biblical fashion. Plus it will deal with them in a more healthy, and effective manner in sucessful changing the destructive belief systems to healthier ones.

I am taking this, and have gone through all of Klemmers garbage philosophy seminars. Thankfully this is available for me to take now. It is helping me clear out the Klemmer garbage with healthier, and more relationally healthy belief sytems for being in our society.

Here is link to information on this stuff...

[www.genesisprocess.org]

Read the topic on The Genesis Process as a LGAT deprogramming tool...

Good stuff

**URGENT**
Hi everyone, I am a frequent poster on the Impact Trainings thread, a recovering LGAT victim and an ally in the fight against all LGATs.
I am writing this because one of my best friends is a photojournalist and is very interested in doing a story on "how (insert any LGAT here) ruined your life."
If Klemmer ruined your life, you would like a chance to be heard, and you are either in southern California or in northern Utah PLEASE PM me today or tommorrow. She needs to write up a proposal first and needs someone to do the story about, but the proposal is due in the next couple days. Please PM me if you have any questions, are interested or know someone who might be interested. Thanks so much![/size:2b74f450cd]

I am debating about sharing something that I have connected in my professional therapy as I am recovering from Klemmer & associates in my life.

If I share it? It will be extremely vulnerable on my part as I reveal many aspects of myself that most would not do. But, I am that resolved in exposing Klemmer to you all.

If I have to be extremely vulnerable in doing this for you. I will do so.

I just need to get enough nerve to be so transparent with you all.

I am a little gun shy of being ripped on emotionally if I share so.

But, I got over my anxiety on sharing about Klemmer so far.

I have been finding the more vulnerable, and transparent I am with you all. The more valuable my sharing is for many. Based on responses from many as I have done this in past.

So, I will work on making a post that will share this stuff in a little while.

Thank you Rick Ross for this ability to expose the hypocricy of Klemmer and all other LGAT's out there.

I am very grateful. Thanks

I am also finding that true integrity is sharing so. Not the false integrity that Klemmer and these LGAT's try to get you to buy into as they tell you not to share what is happening in seminars with those who have not attended.

I have found from this website and what has been shared on it. These LGAT's are the ones with no integrity as they claim to be unique and different than each other. Bull Crap...

Their integrity is equivalent to that of a thieve serving time in prison for embezzlement that believes he did not steal anything and is innocent of stealing anything.

What a joke these LGAT's are. Especially Klemmer & Associates who I believe is the worst of them all.

Well, well...

I discovered a good sight to read about LGAT's and low and behold.

Klemmer & Associates is listeds as one.

Surprise, surprise to you Klemmer fans out there.

The dots are getting connected, and Brian Klemmers scam of keeping his company of the radar screen of being connected to the negative around the term LGAT's are being exposed as the scam they are.

Klemmer & Associates is a Large Group Awareness Training Program and uses the same garbage techniques as the rest of them to create paradigm shifts in peoples belief systems in his seminars.

Just more New Age garbage that is promoting a destructive Narcissism in our society of people who feel they don't have to abide by relational boundaries within our society as they see themselves as being entitled to hedonistic pursuits with a destructive narcissistic stance within our society with its humanistic view of the universe being a genie that exists for our beck and call.

Sorry Brian Klemmer. That is not a world I want to be a part of as you are trying to create this in your seminars.

Your scam will be exposed in time for what it is, and what it is not.

In time, in time.

You sir are a fraud and a liar. My brother is #2 at Klemmer and it is very definately as described. It is a cult and you are a plant from there. K and A is out for your money period. Think no further. They want your $$$$ and your loyalty to get more of your friends and familie's $$$$$ as well.

Quote
Next to Klemmer
You sir are a fraud and a liar. My brother is #2 at Klemmer and it is very definately as described. It is a cult and you are a plant from there. K and A is out for your money period. Think no further. They want your $$$$ and your loyalty to get more of your friends and familie's $$$$$ as well.

Any further information? As someone who knows the #2 in the organization it would be interesting to hear any other stuff you have to share.

Are you open to an alternative viewpoint?

First, a bit of background - I'm a Christian, a linguist and programmer with advanced degrees, and a critical thinker. I've been all the way through the Klemmer work, and I was dragged into it kicking and screaming by an ex-wife. I spent the first half of the Personal Mastery course on my laptop, searching the web for links between K&A and other LGAT's. I'm neither stupid nor terribly impressionable.

I found the K&A work immensely useful in my life. I went in a Christian, and came out a stronger Christian. I went in without much purpose in my life, and came out of it knowing that my goal for the rest of my days was to bring people to Christ by lifting the human condition through acts of healing service. Having been back to staff a dozen K&A events, and watching the facilitators, administrators and students closely, I've seen nothing short of miracles worked in people's lives.

Now, the reality check. Is K&A an LGAT? Definitely. While not directly connected to est, almost all of this type of organization grew out of Erhard's initial work, and Brian Klemmer is the first to admit that almost nothing he does is original. The red/black game, the behavioral quadrants, the raft, almost all of it is found in other organizations as well. The only thing Brian could legitimately trademark is his term "Compassionate Samurai." And, in contrast to many of the other groups out there, I've never seen anyone abused or humiliated. Asked to take themselves on, yes. Confronted when they talk bullshit about themselves, yes. Required to look at the potentially destructive nature of human group interactions, yes. But never treated with anything less than dignity and value.

Is K&A a for-profit company? You bet. They employ a lot of people, and spend a lot of money to put their seminars on. Do for-profit companies market their services aggressively? You better believe it. The techniques I've seen used at K&A to promote their classes are no different from what I encounter when I go to buy a car. And If you pay attention to the required logistics, you'll see that these seminars are run on a pretty slim margin. They lay out huge amounts of money to hold these events. I've watched the conversion rates at the end of these seminars. They seem to hover around 50%. That's hardly "brainwashing". Almost the last thing people hear at the Advanced seminar is an hour-long plea from Kimberly Zink that no matter what they choose to do in their lives, whether they sign up for the next seminar or not, is to keep themselves moving forward, and to find ways to make a difference in the world.

Like other LGAT's, the K&A seminars require people to take a good look at their own behavioral patterns and belief systems. Given the bell-curve of humanity, not everyone will respond the same way to this kind of emotional probing. Based on my own experience, the positive results far outweigh the negative ones. Yes, some people will find the seminars disturbing, especially if they are in huge resistance to making positive changes in their lives. "Shattered lives" and "broken marriages"... it would be hard to say that K&A is directly responsible for these, although again - statistically - you could probably find some. But my goodness - many people go through traditional counselling and/or therapy and some come out successful, others feel like it ruined them for life.

I now know virtually thousands of people who have gone through this work. They come from all walks of life - Christians, secular humanists, Muslims, Jews, educated, blue-collar, you name it. My own direct observation is that an overwhelming preponderance of these people have heightened awareness of their abilities and self-worth; the connected nature of humanity; and a desire to step out into the world and make a positive difference in the lives of others. If that's the result of a "cult", sign me up. Oh, wait...

The No. 2 at Klemmer? Would that be Steve Hinton or Patrick Dean? Because along with Brian, that's basically 1, 2 and 3. I know these people. I know what they are about. They are trying to make a positive difference in the lives of people, and keep a company running as a vehicle for doing so.

Tolerance vs. love? Is this a cult-education forum or a loudspeaker for radical Christianity? The savior himself didn't condemn the woman taken in adultery, even while admonishing her to go and sin no more. No one exemplified better the concept of a world that works for everyone than Christ. He preached the Gospel, admonished people to keep the commandments and come to the Father, and spent most of his time eating, drinking and associating with publicans and sinners. He condemned no one except the pharisees and hypocrites who kept the law for the wrong reasons and lived in judgment of everyone else. Christ didn't say "judge not, except for people who have four wives, or are gay, or who cheat on their spouses." He said, "Judge not."

Despite my objectivity, it will be easy for many to write off my comments as the rantings of another brainwashed loon. So be it. And, this is my experience. K&A has changed my life for the good, immeasurably. Four times the price would have still made the seminars cheap, in my estimation. As it is, the ten grand or so I shelled out seems like a pittance in exchange for what I've gotten back, and the difference I've already been able to make in the lives of others.

It's been a long time since anyone has posted here. I read most of the thread and I may have missed it but I see no opportunity for the accused to face his accuser. Whether you believe him or not he should be allowed to speak. Here is a link to Brian Klemmer's response: [www.klemmer.com] .

3 kinds of needing to be right.

1. I need to have been right.
2. I need to be the one who is right.
3. I need to be right. (Meaning, I search for truth and I will change and not defend my previous ideas if they are shown to be incorrect.)