I am making sure to link things that I see are good to read, and have good points to hear as there will be people checking out this website to get information on Klemmer.

Here is a good link to topic started.

[board.culteducation.com]

Actually every bit of information on this website dealing with LGAT's and how these companies perform their seminars, and the cause & affect of them on participants lives.

Much of the so called tools, mechanisms, and how these companies run their seminars are very similar to Klemmer & Associates and how they operate as a company. It is also a way to understand what takes place in Klemmers seminars prior to making a decision to go to one.

I am not telling you to not go to a Klemmer seminar. I am telling you to read all angles, information, and get both the good and bad that is out there on LGAT's.

Klemmer is a LGAT. Large Group Awareness Training. There is some really good information on understanding what this is meaning. Much is linked from many message posts on this website.

Keep reading, and digging. Klemmer has a really good, and effective broom that sweeps the negative about their company swept under the carpet. All you need to do, is find the edge of the carpet and lift it up.

Then you will uncover there is much negative. Just not easy to locate, or find. But, its there.

Keep looking.

In case I didn't post this here. Read this topic thread. Good information that is relavent to Klemmer & Associates seminars.

[board.culteducation.com]

Anyone who is looking for information on Klemmer & Associates and its seminars.

Read in detail about Impact Training. As I have been reading the many posts about how seminars are ran, and how Impact operates in dealing with participants. The many seminar formats, and how they process participants in seminars are like reading messages from participants in Klemmers seminars.

I am a Klemmer Graduate and have gone through all Klemmer seminars. I have experienced it all.

The posts on Impact are cut out of the same cloth as Klemmer.

Here is link to the topic thread on Impact Trainings. There are many posts on this topic thread.

Read, and find the ones that refer to the format of Impact training seminars. How they are ran, and how they are set up. Also many of the modules that are in seminars are from the same structurally same foundational mental tool that gets used by Klemmer.

I am choosing to stay within my integrity. I agreed not to disclose what is done in Klemmer seminars, and only share what I experienced in them.

Well, I am not violating my promise. I am not telling you what is, and is not done in Klemmer seminars. I am telling you that Impact Training seminars are extremely similar in what, how, and the way these LGAT's utilize these mental and emotional tools that are experienced in seminars.

I am telling you to read in detail about Impact Training and use it as a guage to determine if you want to participate in Klemmer.

Klemmer will not tell you what you will experience in seminars. Yet they will have you sign a legal waiver of releasing them from any and all harm to include mental and psychological.

So, BUYER BEWARE. READ, READ, DIG, AND DIG, AND READ.

YOU ARE WORTH IT TO BE CAREFUL WITH KLEMMER & ASSOCIATES.

IN MY OPINION YOU ARE BETTER OFF PURSUING SAFER, AND MUCH MORE HEALTHIER MEANS OF CHANGING YOUR CORE BELIEF SYSTEMS THAN KLEMMERS APPROACH THAT ULTIMATELY BY THE LAST SEMINAR WHICH IS SAM CAMP.

YOUR CORE BELIEF SYTEM WILL HAVE BEEN SWITCHED OUT WITH THAT OF THE MOVIE/BOOK TITLED "THE SECRET". WHICH IS TALKED ABOUT ON THIS WEBSITE ALSO. AGIAN READ, READ, DIG, AND DIG.
KLEMMER & ASSOCIATES ARE DOING MENTAL HEALTH MALPRACTICE IN THEIR SEMINARS. IN TIME THIS LEGAL LOOPHOLE WILL BE TIED SHUT.

FOR NOW BUYER BEWARE, AND READ, DIG, AND READ. CRITICAL THINKING, AND USING YOUR GOD GIVEN BRAIN WILL BE WHAT CAN ONLY SAFEGUARD UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT PLACES LEGAL SAFEGUARDS TO STOP THIS MALPRACTICE BEING DONE CURRENTLY.

HERE ARE LINKS:

IMPACT TRAINING:
[board.culteducation.com]

THE SECRET:
[board.culteducation.com]

Klemmer & Associates and all the other Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) companies use experiential learning techniques that fall within cognitive learning that falls within Mental Health.

There are many stringent guidlelines for the Medical side in Healthcare in our nation. The Mental health aspect is beginning to be recognized as just as important.

There have been many changes in our society, and legal realm within the Mental healthcare realm.

In time there will be legal protection from such companies as Klemmer & Associates and how they are choosing to take advantage of the loop holes, and the lack of legal requirements for these companies to be licensed to operate within the realm that is required to be properly trained, and legally regulated.

In time, in time. The malpractice that is being performed within the Mental Health realm of participants psyches will be exposed, and regulated.

In time these companies will be held accountable for the harm that is being done in confronting peoples core belief systems and brainwashing us with mind control technigues that open us up to swapping out our core belief systems with that of the companies belief system.

Klemmer & Associates says that I must experience their seminars. Well, I have and found it extremely destructive.

My core beliefs that are deeper than the brainwashing of Klemmer was able to perform on me has finally won out.

I now see Klemmer for what it is, and I want nothing to do with it.

In my opinion. Klemmer is a platform for new age philosphy based on narcissism, hedonism, and humanism.

Yes, they declare a belief in God. Yet this new age belief in God is nothing I want in my life.

There is much reference in the bible to this perception of God. There is much said in the bible on the true source of this delusion, and great deception.

Klemmer & Associates god is not the same God of the bible.

The God of the bible has the gateway being Jesus Christ as the gate keeper for having a intimate relationship with the God of the bible.

I will pass on having any relationship with Klemmers god.

Quote
Rswinters

I am choosing to stay within my integrity. I agreed not to disclose what is done in Klemmer seminars, and only share what I experienced in them.

Nice trick, isn't it? That these people, who are in fact a sort of psycho-criminal syndicate, are able to link your integrity with their ability to continue their slimy business because few will ever speak out or expose them. It's the same trick the gangs use by labeling people "snitches," as though that were the worst thing in the world you could be. Or the Mafia with their omerta (to the death) or even certain professions whose members practice a code of silence. Whether you are gagged by fear or through your sense of honor, the outcome is the same -- criminals get to continue to operate with impunity. The news black-out protects them.

I don't think you are obligated to protect people who set out to take advantage of you, exploit your trust, and deceive you. And as far as I know, no one has ever been prosecuted for spilling the beans on these creeps. Anyone else know of such a case?


Ellen

Elena wrote:

Quote

Nice trick, isn't it? That these people, who are in fact a sort of psycho-criminal syndicate, are able to link your integrity with their ability to continue their slimy business because few will ever speak out or expose them. It's the same trick the gangs use by labeling people "snitches," as though that were the worst thing in the world you could be. Or the Mafia with their omerta (to the death) or even certain professions whose members practice a code of silence. Whether you are gagged by fear or through your sense of honor, the outcome is the same -- criminals get to continue to operate with impunity. The news black-out protects them.

I totally agree. I am physically incapable of pressing submit every time I write something that reveals an inquest process. Drives me nuts, writing things that I really want to say, then I can't press submit. :(

And as long as we don't discuss the details, it is difficult to pinpoint how similar they all are, and how they may (possibly) be linked to each other in the background. That's what I'm most curious about - is there a hidden connection between all of them or are they just mutated viruses of each other??

Quote
elena
Nice trick, isn't it? That these people, who are in fact a sort of psycho-criminal syndicate, are able to link your integrity with their ability to continue their slimy business because few will ever speak out or expose them.

I don't think you are obligated to protect people who set out to take advantage of you, exploit your trust, and deceive you.

I have noticed that many of these LGAT's talk about "integrity" a great deal. I don't know if Klemmer is one of them. Of course the definition they give integrity is a very twisted one.

Acting with integrity, depends on one's personal value system. For me, keeping my word is an important value. There could be times however when keeping my word would mean that I would violate another, more important value, like preventing harm to others.

For me, it would also depend on the reason I gave my word and the reason the LGAT asked for my word. I would imagine that going in, I might think the reason the company asked for this promise was to protect their financial interest in the processes they developed. If I then found out that this was likely not the real reason because their program is a virtual clone of other LGAT's, I'd have to ask what might have been the real reason they asked for this promise. If they asked for this promise to assist them to continue to harm me and other people, my integrity would call me to break my word.

I don't know for certain, but I think the Impact people also signed these non-disclosure forms. It seems to be very healing for them to talk about this in detail and it seems likely to dissuade others from going. It has greatly promoted my understanding to have a least some detail about people's experiences. Yet, I do realize it can be a difficult personal judgment call when one important value conflicts with another important value.

Question lady wrote:

Quote

have noticed that many of these LGAT's talk about "integrity" a great deal. I don't know if Klemmer is one of them. Of course the definition they give integrity is a very twisted one.

I have thought a great deal about this topic and you have expressed it very simply and clearly, thank you for that.

However even after reaching this conclusion there is - as in all other lgat things - the non-rational influence they have on you.

On some advanced courses its not only a matter of signing a document, or being told not to ruin it for others. Its an approximately two-hour long process of [deleted, apologies].

Now when I try to say anything I feel dreadful (shame plus nausea plus guilt plus fear). I know its part of the manipulation, but that's still how I feel. I expect it to pass in time.

So if anyone doesn't want to discuss the details, I think that's fair, each person's choice, as you say. The more courses you've done, the more messed up you are, and the more your immediate responsibility is to keep yourself on an even keel by respecting your sense of honour, or your fear, or whatever weighs most heavily on you.

I wonder if any other groups do similar secrecy processes.

Sorry don't know how to do the quotes from another topic thread. Here is a cut and paste.


Senior Member


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 153

Posted: 06-22-2007 01:39 PM Post subject: Re: In second Klemmer seminar I was influenced to accept ill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found a post that I wanted to bring up as I say something on this matter.

This situation where I was forced to accept an ongoing illegal matter that is still going on as far as I know.

Here is the conflict. Polygmy is illegal in our nation. It is a crime and is punishable by our nations court system.

Klemmer & Associates created a circumstance where I was forced to comply with not judging this mans behavior which is illegal.

I should not be struggling with the emotional battle of reporting this to the legal authorities for them to deal with. I am struggling with this too much to do so. Yet, the fact that I am even in this place emotionally, and mentally is a direct result of Klemmer & Associates and what is dealt with in their seminars.

I am a Christian and in my church. There is a standing rule that if something is revealed as being illegal. It will be reported to the proper authorities to deal with.

I am not talking about small debateable things. I am talking about point blank violaitons of the law.

Klemmer would have me be non-resistant, and non-judgemental.

This is a emotional conflict that Klemmer has no right creating. Yet it was created in me and the many other participants who saw this ongoing violation of our nations law.

Rswinters wrote:
Okay folks lets get this cleared out of the way before I explain what I am going to share here. I chose to attend seminar, I chose to sign waivers, I chose to participate, I chose, I chose. The list could go on.

I am not removing my responsibility here.

When I went through the second seminar called Advance Leadership Training I was placed in a situation where I was teamed up with a buddy for the whole four days where I had to work through a strong negative judgement I held for this guy.

So we are on the same page. This was my judgement that I held. This man was illegally married to two women in Utah with about 10 kids between the two. His first wife was also in attendance at this seminar and was sharing her struggles with her husband choice of getting married to a second women. This has been the situation for years at this point in time.

I struggled with this mans choice to break the laws of the land and ignore them by living what is very clearly a illegal lifestye in our nation.

Yet, I was on the emotional ride of these seminars and took on the challenge to not be in judgement of this mans behavior. I did arrive at a place of loving and accepting this man as a human being and we are still good friends now. Although I still hold my judgement of his illegal behavior. I just learned to love the man and and not his behavior.

Well, to expand on this. When I went to the 3rd seminar that is 5 days. This man not only was in attendance, but he brought both of his wives to the seminar.

The man and the second wife were eating up this non-judgemental stuff and trying to get his first wife to embrace this non-judgemental state. She was really struggling with loving her husband as she was his first marriage, and at the same time was struggling with being in a marriage with a husband who has two legal wives (I guess in Utah they know how to get around the legality of it being agianst the law)

The first wife was in extreme turmoil around trying to embrace not being in judgement of her marriage reality. She was really struggling with this.

I had some gut feelings which contradicted what I was hearing in these seminars. Yet, I kept riding the emotional ride all the way through all of Klemmer seminars.

Now I am facing how I was not listening to my gut, and that is where I was wrong. Klemmer has all the whistles and bells to influence you into their mindset that is hard to say no to.

If you don't agree with them. Your being not teachable, your being judgemental. and the response list is never ending in how your wrong for not embracing Klemmer mindset without out question.

I was listening to Brian Klemmer say to a group of volunteer staff that I was a part of that he only hires and keeps staff that will choose to operate with no resistance to the companies requests that he makes of his staff.

All others are fired, or they quit and leave.

I will share more of my experience in Klemmer later. I have several more experiences that did not sit will in me that I want to share in time with you.

Found a good link, and article to read. Enjoy...


[www.csj.org]
Large Group Awareness Trainings

Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Editor, Cultic Studies Journal



Cult Observer, Volume 15, No. 1, 1998

In the 1960s the encounter group movement was born. Advocating enhanced communication and intensified experience, this movement evolved into something that was part psychotherapy, part spirituality, and part business. In some scholarly articles, these groups were referred to as "large group awareness trainings" or LGATs. Erhard Seminars Training (est) was the most successful of these groups, and it has been widely imitated. Even though it no longer officially exists, in the minds of many est is identified with the entire LGAT movement. It is in a sense the progenitor of a myriad of programs that have been marketed to the public and the business community. Lifespring is, perhaps, the next best known program after est. It is probably not an exaggeration to estimate that there are hundreds of training programs in the genre that est made famous. However, because most of these programs are businesses, they will usually emphasize that which they want potential consumers to think distinguishes them from their competition. "Exciting" words and phrases, such as "breakthrough," "unique," "your full potential," "must be experienced," and "changed my life" are used again and again with training after training.

The est model of self-transformation is structured around an intense weekend experience which brings together several dozen or several hundred people and a "trainer" with one or more assistants. People are together morning, afternoon, and evening. Breaks, even for the bathroom, tend to be highly structured and limited. Participants are led through a long series of exercises that proponents say are designed to cut through psychological defenses, increase honesty, and help people take charge of their lives. Undoubtedly, many variations of this basic model exist, and some LGATs may depart substantially from this model.

Although reliable scientific data are not available, probably at least a million people in the United States have participated in at least one LGAT, with several hundred thousand having gone through est alone.

Because many observers of this phenomenon have associated such trainings with the new age movement (NAM), LGATs have also been called "new age transformational training programs," or "new age trainings." According to Dole and Langone, the new age can be defined as "an alternative religious paradigm that is rooted in Eastern mysticism, eclectic in its practices and beliefs, tolerant (or undiscerning, depending upon one's perspective) of nontraditional practices and beliefs, and optimistic about humanity's capacity to bring about a great evolutionary leap in consciousness." New age transformational trainings use an eclectic mix of psychological techniques and exercises that proponents believe will improve one's spiritual, psychological, and material well-being.

Some observers and scientific researchers have also associated some LGATs with at least the potential to cause psychological distress to some participants. Some compare the trainings to thought reform programs, or "brainwashing," and to "cults."

The implied, if not explicit, religious nature of many of these trainings and the potential for psychological damage in some trainings have resulted in lawsuits against some trainings and employers who have sponsored them. On February 22, 1988 the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) issued a notice on new age training programs which conflict with employees' religious beliefs. This notice gave official credence to the claim that some of these trainings are fundamentally religious in nature, even though they may be corporately organized as a business. An article from Labor Law Journal elaborates upon the EEOC document.

Recently, AFF developed a packet on LGATs, containing the articles noted above as well as other articles. With a few exceptions, the information in this packet tends to be critical of LGATs. This is because the consumers who seek information from AFF are likely to have already been exposed to the sophisticated "sales" packages and activities that most such trainings excel at producing.\ There is no shortage of glowing testimonies and four-color brochures lauding the benefits of these programs. But the consumer will not so easily find material that examines negative aspects of the practices of some of these trainings. The packet is an attempt to rectify the informational advantage that LGATs have.

The new packet emphasizes scholarly articles because we believe that this area cries out for scientific research. Given the person-hours devoted to LGATs during the past two decades, it is astounding how little solid scientific research has been conducted. Indeed, there is not enough research to make any sweeping generalizations about this genre of training program. The research on est suggests that a small, though certainly not insignificant, percentage of participants were psychologically harmed by the training in ways that are detectable by standard measures of psychological distress. How much "subtle" harm occurs is still open to dispute.

I know of no research, however, that convincingly demonstrates positive behavioral effects of these trainings. In my opinion, one of the best studies from a methodological standpoint was "Research on Erhard Seminar Training in a Correctional Institution" (Hosford, Ray, E., Moss, C. Scott, Cavior, Helene, & Kerish, Burton. Catalog of Selected Documents in Psychology, 1982, Manuscript #2419, American Psychological Association). Of 313 inmates who volunteered for est training in a Federal Correctional Institution, 150 were randomly selected for the training, while the balance acted as a waiting-list control group and were given scholarships to be used upon release. The groups did not differ on demographics or variables related to criminal history. They were given a full battery of psychological tests and biofeedback instruments, with half of the group pre-tested and half post-tested (to control for the possible contaminating effect of testing). Three-month and 12-month follow-ups were conducted to assess behavioral outcomes (incident reports, furloughs, work performance, etc.). Although the psychological tests reflected some positive change, these self-report changes did not manifest themselves in alterations in physiological measures or in actual behavior.

The research and anecdotal evidence seem to indicate that LGATs are very successful at producing positive opinions about the trainings -- an outcome that the financial officers of every service business would value. However, whether or not they have a substantial positive effect on behavior that is not due to placebo factors, is still an unanswered question.

There are also a host of ethical questions that can be raised about how many of these trainings recruit new trainees and persuade graduates to continue to take more courses. We hope that the material in the new packet will help readers appreciate the complexity and subtlety of the issues raised by LGATs.



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