For those who are reading this message to find out about Klemmer & Associates? Especially if your thinking about attending any of there seminars in the future.

I encourage you to read, read, and read all the topic threads on Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) companies out there.

Klemmer & Associates is a LGAT so read up.

Also read up on "The Secret" which is based on the Law of Attraction.

Read every thing you can get your hands on. Both good, and bad.

Just read and let critical thinking, and logic guide you in your pursuit.

I like many other ex-lgat'ers on this site discovered how we turned off this God given part of ourselves that was created in us to safeguard us from walking blindly into harmful philosphies, and enviroments in our lives.

Core belief systems are powerful, and we tend to not be aware of how powerful they are.

So, if you get suckered into attending a LGAT seminar and they have you experience in a seminar how powerful these core belief systems are in your life.

DO NOT TURN OF LOGIC, AND CRITICAL THINKING HERE.

This is where I made my mistake, and you will read in many other ex-lgat'ers made also.

Because here is where the bait and switch takes place. The rest of the seminars, and stuff that is taught to you by these companies is a core belief systems also.

We can't live or function with a core belief system to live by.

SO BEWARE!!! AT THIS POINT IS WHERE IF YOU CHOOSE TO CONTINUE IN SEMINARS AFTER THIS HUGE AWARENESS OF CORE BELIEF SYSTEMS AND HOW THEY AFFECT YOU.

IT IS JUST A BAIT & SWITCH OF CORE BELIEF SYSTEMS.

You trade yous for that of companies belief system.

Read, read, and read what their belief system as been leaving in its wake as many do create means of getting their desires in life.

But at what cost, and at what price.

Read this website and dig deep to find the negative aspects of these companies affects on some peoples lives.

Please don't be so arrogant, and say it is creating more good than bad.

PLease don't be so arrogant, say it is not harming anyone.

It is, and does harm people.

It did me, and it has many others. Please don't allow yourself to become so uncaring, and self focused that you can't be open to hearing with empathy the harm that these companies are doing on many peoples lives.

Mental health is a healthcare matter. Let the Psychiatrists, and properly trained professionals work in this realm in peoples lives.

These companies are not licenced to deal with Mental health, and they have found a legal loophole to make money on manipulating people's psyches at such a deep level that it is causing great harm, just as much as it is causing some good.

If these companies are not operating in this way?

Here is my challenge and question to them. Stop having people sign waivers of releasing them from psychological harm caused by seminars.

Let there seminars stand on their own in the court of law as it would open up the legal means for participants to sue for mental health malpractice that is being done in them.

Let the court of law determine if these companies are not operating in a manner of mental health malpractice.

I doubt very strongly, and would bet with my life that this will never happen.

Because after going through all of Klemmers seminars, and what I saw in myself and others in seminars.

THESE COMPANIES ARE DOING MALPRACTICE WITHIN THE MENTAL HEALTH REALM.

The results are a hit and miss. The ones who are able to use the seminars to create what is seen as sucess is used as poster board testimonies. While those like me are swept under the carpet and kept out of the publics eye.

Thank God for this website. Klemmer is not able to sweep me under the carpet as it has many others that experienced the mental health malpractice of their seminars.

A persons psyche is unique, and it is not something to be messed with by those who are not properly trained, and skilled to do so.

Hi Rs

I noticed in some of your posts that you're interested in how LGATs contradict christianity. Here is a link to some pages about an LGAT called Momentus that is run by a 'church' organisation. It analyses how the teachings are in opposition to christianity.

[www.empirenet.com]

Its also interesting for non-christians because it has articles on other things like how Momentus was started by an ex-Lifespring guy, psychological processes and effects, and the waiver they use. They have a special name for their waiver - Hold Harmless.

Well, as I expected. Klemmer & Associates squirmed out of my request for a refund.

Kinda like how they squirm out of being held liable for any pyschological damages by having participants sign waivers.

If a company has the integrity that Brian Klemmer declares in all of his seminars, and makes such bold statements of how to break the 3R's in a relational conflict.

Well, what I have is one huge relational conflict with Klemmer as a company.

Talk is cheap. Klemmer doesn't show up with what is declared in books or in seminars.

Which is par for course in my perception.

I would have had to re-evaluate my opinion of Klemmer if they did give me my refund request. But, like I figured as much.

Neveer would have happened.

All it does for me is solidify what I already saw in Klemmer.

Talk, talk, talk.

Which is why I will continue to pursue ways to get LGAT's out of the public realm.

If a company can't back up there product by giving a refund when requested without referring to the fine print to slime out of it.

Like I said, it follow the same manner as their release waivers for any and all pyschological damgages before you even attend their seminars.

Well, I blew off some steam here. I guess it is frustrating because in the depths of my heart. I hoped Brian Klemmer would of surprise me with giving me a refund that would have made me rethink what I have been saying about Klemmer.

I will stand by every word that I have said on all my posts about Klemmer. I was just hoping for more integrity from Klemmer as a company is all.

What a huge let down.

I posted these two posts on different topic threads. But wanted to also place here for those wanting to be informed about Klemmer.

In time there will be more people who will come forth about the real dealings of Klemmer for the public to see, and hear about.

Until then. I will keep sharing, and exposing Klemmer & Associates for what it is. A LGAT and all the garbage philosphy that comes with em.

Posted: 06-14-2007 06:38 PM Post subject: Klemmer & Associates has a bizarre definition of Christianity.

I posted this on the topic thread of The Secret.

Since Klemmer & Associates focus in their seminars is to break a participant down by confronting core belief systems and then deceptively replace these core belief systems with "The Secret" belief system by the end of their last seminar called "Samurai Camp".

This is the belief system that Klemmer bait & switches with what you show up with at first seminar.

I as a Christian was appalled at what I allowed myself to be brain washed with by Klemmer.

Here is what I posted about the movie "The Secret" and its perspective on the law of attraction.

oops didn't finish post

Biblically its a daily relationship with Him and letting Him confront me on my behavior.

Its daily going to the cross and letting God confront my behavior.

It is also letting God say no to things I ask for. It is letting Him direct my life by his biblical guidelines.

The Secret approaches God as a universal genie.

While making it a one way interaction with the universe or God.

Oh yes, there is the aspect of allowing for the feel good aspects of the Universe, or God to be felt by them.

Yet, the righteous judgement of God in their lives is dismissed and ignored.

The biblical God wants to drive the narcissism, hedonism, and humanism out of our lives.

Thats the God of the universe.

Not this spiritual genie that The Secret Portrays

Posted: 06-14-2007 06:38 PM Post subject: Klemmer & Associates has a bizarre definition of Christi
Jesus Christ and Salvation are not to be found in Klemmer & Associates definition of Christianity.

There defininition of God is a genie of the universe.

Sorry. Not a biblical definition by a long shot.

Klemmer & Associates talk god talk. But thats all they do.

Like I said Jesus Christ and Salvation is not part of the definition for them.

Which makes the universe/god being a genie to be used to get what I want mentality a very nice sounding one as the bible is disected and the parts that are nice sounding are embraced and the hard parts are ignored and removed from philosphy of life.

Can't have that negative side of God. It won't fit the philosphy of Klemmer & Associates doctrine.

I will share more later.

By the way. For the Christians reading this post. Too bad there was not a way to show how many divorces are encouraged by Klemmers Philosphy versus trying to sort out and save a marriage.

Marriage is not a sacred union in Klemmers eyes. I am saying this from first hand experience of Klemmers dealings with a marriage in conflict.

If you listen to the core of what is being said about this ladies experience.

You will have a taste of what a Klemmer seminar is like.

Every seminar will be different in how the participants bring the drama that the facilitators play with.

See my post on this topic thread on how I compare a card trick to Klemmer seminars.

Here is the link. Watch and listen to the basic elements that are apart of all of Klemmer seminars.

Different variables. But the crux is very similar.

[www.youtube.com]

Found this and wanted to post it here. I am not a LDS but I am a Christian and find the concerns mentioned are common to all faiths in this regard.

Klemmer & Associates fits the description of the company practices included in this statement.

So. I posted here for your information.

Concerns for LDS members

The LDS Church has issued the following statement regarding "self-awareness groups":

Self-Awareness Groups

Many community resources provide effective help for members who suffer from social or emotional problems. However, some groups that purport to increase self-awareness, raise self-esteem, or enhance individual agency advocate concepts and use methods that can be harmful. Some groups falsely claim Church endorsement, charge exorbitant fees, and encourage long-term commitments. Some intermingle worldly concepts with gospel principles in ways that can undermine spirituality and faith.

These groups tend to promise quick solutions to problems that normally require time and personal effort to resolve. Although participants may experience temporary emotional relief or exhilaration, old problems often return, leading to added disappointment and despair.

Church members should not participate in groups that:

1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential.
2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.
3. Foster physical contact among participants.
4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours.
5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.
6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other partners.

Church leaders are not to pay for, encourage participation in, or promote such groups or practices. Also, Church facilities may not be used for these activities. Local leaders should counsel members that true self-improvement comes through living gospel principles. Members who have social or emotional problems may consult with priesthood leaders for guidance in identifying sources of help that are in harmony with gospel principles.

The LDS Church does not mention the names of specific groups, however it is clear that they are referring to Large Group Awareness Trainings. Having reviewed copies of Impact's training materials and from interviewing former members and trainers, it is conclusive that they and their spinoffs, utilize the exercises and procedures of the Lifespring training. The following exercises are used at in their trainings:

Ground rules
Red-Black Game
Feedback Arcs
What do you want process
Hug line
Guided Imagery/Hypnosis
Lifeboat
Giver-Taker
Nametags
Nerdvana
Contracts
Catharsis

Please review the articles and fictional section of the Awareness Page for descriptions of these processes, particularly the Basic and Advanced Course descriptions.

I cannot comment on the degree of confrontation used as I have not experienced it. But I have experienced the similar training of another Lifespring spinoff using the same exercises and would conclude that it violates the LDS Church guidelines given above. It is likely that these groups would give cause for concern regarding items 3-4-5-6 in the Church's statement. The purpose of these trainings is for people to have emotional catharsis on deeply personal issues. In fact in their own documents they refer to a "Catharis" process in their staffing guide. That's #5 on the Church list.

The prior post had these seminar mechanisms mentioned as being apart of Life Spring. They are also a part of Klemmer & Assoiciates arsenal in their 4 seminars.

Ground rules
Red-Black Game
Feedback Arcs
What do you want process
Hug line
Guided Imagery/Hypnosis
Lifeboat
Giver-Taker
Nametags
Nerdvana
Contracts
Catharsis

So, read, read. Find out all you can find out on Large Group Awareness Training Programs before you consider going to one of these seminars.

Buyer Beware.

Hi Rs, looks like we are on the 'same page' - see my note under impact. :)

Do they do the same processes on Klemmer?

Quote
SaneAgain
Hi Rs, looks like we are on the 'same page' - see my note under impact. :)

Do they do the same processes on Klemmer?

I saw it, and read the web link you posted. I had to post it here. It was to good, and relavent not to post on this topic feed.

Thanks for finding this link. I will post it here for others to see it.

[perso.orange.fr]

Since Klemmer & Associates chooses to peform psycho therapy in all of their seminars.

I came across this topic thread. Has some pertinent information on practicing psychogical therapy without a license.

In time, in time. The mental health malpractice of Klemmer & Associates will catch up with them.

Here is the link for a interesting topic on this issue.

[board.culteducation.com]