Hi Rswinters, this makes sense now. You can't put yourself in someone else's shoes because you think they're your shoes.

I don't know exactly what they do on Landmark, but on Quest there are two courses, one that creates simple selfishness (If it works for me good, if it doesn't work for you, that's your problem) - and that's just an 'unhealthy obsession with thinking only about yourself'.

Then there's another course where they turn it around, and make out that you created the whole of reality, including everyone else's problems, so it is your problem. That's the definition you quoted here, where 'the entire world and everyone in it is simply an extension of your-self'.

Do they have separate courses like that in Landmark? Do they do more of the first type, simple selfishness, or the other type of narcissm? Or do mix both together in all the courses?

My experience was in Klemmer & Associates. But from what I have read on the many threads it seems that landmark and Klemmer operate much on the same principles.

A few variances, but much the same tools, and mechanisms of seminars.

I went all through Klemmer & Associates seminars. I compare to landmark only by seeing the same stuff in landmark as posted on this site.

Yes, they do have seperate courses, or seminars. It is all part of the breaking down, and relaying a new foundation to lay the philosphy of "The Secret".

I thank God, that I woke up to this messed up philosphy.

Please steer clear of Klemmer & Associates, and warn anyone who is considering going.

If they ask why? Tell them to read all about the philosphy of "The Secret"

Klemmer & Associates operates on this philosphy. So, how you feel about this philosphy will either cause you to embrace Klemmer or be repelled from them.

I am putting Brian Klemmer and his company to the test of his integrity.

Brian has stated that if a participant doesn't get what Klemmer states will be gotten in a persons life. They will refund all money paid into Klemmer gauranteed.

Here is a copy of my request for a refund. This will enable Klemmer to know exactly who I am. But, there has not been nothing stated in any of my posts that I am not willing to state in a court of law.

I have nothing to hide, or be deceptive about. Because of applying Klemmers philosphy in my life. I have destroyed it anyway. I have nothing left to lose.

Here is a copy of my refund email request I just sent to Brian Klemmer.
If this pans out, and Klemmer refunds my money. It will around 10 thousand for me, and almost 20 thousand if I get the full refund that I requested in email.

I would like a refund as you state if...

Brian,

I would like a full refund of all my money paid into Klemmer for all your seminars. They have not produced what you stated they would do. Matter of fact they have produced extreme destruction as a result of applying your million dollar formula in my life.

I would like to also ask for a refund for another person who I paid the majority of cost for Klemmer. I can provide documented financial proof of my payment for her.

I hope you will honor your guarantee of refund if Klemmer fails to deliver.

Klemmer failed to deliver. So, please give me a refund.

Sincerely,

Talk is cheap. Lets see if Klemmer & Associates has the integrity they state in seminars.

If they have the integrity stated.

I should be getting a refund close to 20 thousand dollars.

I highly doubt Klemmer will refund my money.

Because they are that slimy.

Or they will try to refund with me signing some sort of legal document to shut me up.

It seems Klemmer & Associates are able to clean up negative reports very will.

I found this in a search, and when I went to read it. It is somehow unavaliable to be pulled up as a link.

Things that make you go hmmm....

Here is cut and paste of what came up in google listings.

Rip-off Report.com - badbusinessbureau.comAll the associates and pro-ecoquest participants in these discussions managed to hang ... We Would All Be Skinny, Rich, and Happy. by Brian Klemmer. ...
www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=205202&view=printer - 38k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages

Conviently a link with no link. Klemmer cleaning up the negative? Makes you wonder doesn't it?

I found this site with good information on LGAT's and wouldn't you know the link to Personal Mastery and Brian Klemmer doesn't work.

I checked a few other links to see if others did or did not work. They did...

Is it just me? I seem to be running into what seems to be a very good mechanism on the internet of wiping negative comments about Klemmer & Associates from being able to pursue links when the shadow footprint of a negative one is found.

Hmm... Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Here is the link. You can try to connect to the link on Personal Mastery and Brian Klemmer yourself. Almost at bottom of page

[perso.orange.fr]

Gee...

Seventeen "reviewers" and they all gave the dude five stars. Hardly anyone didn't like the reviews, though they make me want to gag. Reminds me of the ol' ElRon trick of getting his brainwashed slaves to purchase stacks of his books to make it look as though they were best-sellers.

[tinyurl.com]

So far, Amazon doesn't pull negative reviews that I know of so I suggest someone add one, just for ducks.


Ellen

What is "peek performance?" Is this some secret Klemmer-type performance where you get a peek at the thing or something? Or is it just a typo that made it onto the front page of his book because, being who he is and all, he doesn't need editors (or spellcheck).

[tinyurl.com]

And golly, doesn't the following review just sound sooo gen-you-ine?

5 of 5 people found the following review helpful:
Ordinary to Extraordinary, April 13, 2006
By J. Cxxxxx (Weatherford, TX USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
CEO of Klemmer & Assoc., Brian Klemmer gives useful advice on how to increase intimacy, sales, and production. He uses life-altering ideas to help people become more bold, sustain change, stop feeling trapped, and how to stop being a victim to your feelings. Without cliches or false views of reality, this book will not leave you the way it found you. The book gives you "ten lessons to coach yourself and others to peak performance." The first chapter, "What The Facts Really Mean", alone changed the way I approach situations. It gave me the tools to place correct meanings to past and current experiences.

These two books are what the first two seminars are basically on. The second seminar is where the changing out your belief systems starts with moving you towards the hidden agenda of "The Secret" philosphy that is primed in the 3rd seminar, and hammered home in the fourth seminar.

The two books you linked elena. I mostly don't have any really bad things to say about them. In and of themselves they hold some good stuff in facing your core belief systems.

What I don't agree with, and hold Klemmer accountable for in my life is confronting me powerfully with my belief systems in the first two seminars. Only to replace it with theirs based on "The Secret" in their last two seminars. Heart of a Samurai, and Samurai Camp.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I am very angry at Klemmer for operating in this manner of powerful influence. Yes, I chose to embrace it full on. Yet, I did not attend these seminars to have my core belief systems replaced with such a messed up philosphy as "The Secret" is.

The degree of how this affects a participant is based on where the person is in their emotional, spiritual area's of life.

Klemmer & Associates have chosen to operate like the rest of the LGAT's are operating.

They need to stay out of people psyches since they are not licensed professionals.

If they will not be accountable for the psychological damage done in some peoples lives like mine. Then they are not entitled to claim the Good that is created either.

They need to be accountable for both the good, and the bad that is being created in their seminars.

Reading this thread was like reading about Klemmer seminars.

[board.culteducation.com]