Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
Zorro
()
Date: September 25, 2007 09:05PM
Man! The more that I see that a lot of people have had the same exact experience, the freakier this whole Landmark LGAT stuff gets. Lekkie leaders are sick individuals to do this stuff to people.
I keep making an analogy between Lekkies and Vampires. Lekkie's and Lekkie Leaders find an unsuspecting victim. Start sucking the life out of them then gradually start converting the person over. Eventually the newly converted Lekkie either becomes something they feed off of financially & emotionally or becomes a perpetuator of the Landmark cause by becoming a leader or instructor and starts weilding power over classes and sucking the life out the participants and converting them over themselves......
Dark truely Dark when I think about it. If anyone is looking for something like a real life Vampire this Halloween season look no further than your local Landmark center you'll find a whole hive of these fuckers!!!!
Hey I got an idea! For Haloween I'll go as Werner Earhard and have a couple of Lekkies join me as a support group. Talk with people about transformation, break throughs, and the fact that life is empty and meaningless....That ought to scare the living shit out of people on Halloween!!!
I keep making an analogy between Lekkies and Vampires. Lekkie's and Lekkie Leaders find an unsuspecting victim. Start sucking the life out of them then gradually start converting the person over. Eventually the newly converted Lekkie either becomes something they feed off of financially & emotionally or becomes a perpetuator of the Landmark cause by becoming a leader or instructor and starts weilding power over classes and sucking the life out the participants and converting them over themselves......
Dark truely Dark when I think about it. If anyone is looking for something like a real life Vampire this Halloween season look no further than your local Landmark center you'll find a whole hive of these fuckers!!!!
Hey I got an idea! For Haloween I'll go as Werner Earhard and have a couple of Lekkies join me as a support group. Talk with people about transformation, break throughs, and the fact that life is empty and meaningless....That ought to scare the living shit out of people on Halloween!!!
Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
SaneAgain
()
Date: September 26, 2007 02:36AM
Zorro,
Yes, I experienced that exactly, but around about the time I left I also had a psychosis, and got PTSD, so I've always thought it was that more than a general lgat thing - very interesting!!!!
I definitely found when I left I had a lot of dreams and nightmares and they were mostly about quest, at least once a week usually two or three times a week. When I found this website and started figuring things out, the dreams got worse at first, but they seem to have cleared up now, down to about one bad dream every two three weeks, instead of a few times a week.
Were any of your dreams specifically or metaphorically about landmark? Were they generally good, bad or neutral?
Interesting they don't do gender programming at landmark, and you say people became more neutral... I think it just shows people become whatever they're programmed into, without specific masculine / feminine programming those traits are maybe just overwhelmed by all the other programming?
Quote
I even stopped dreaming when I was asleep. I discussed this with another Lekkie when I first started Landmark and she was experiencing the same thing. I've started having dreams now that I've left Landmark. Some are quite disturbing I often wake up with sweat soaked clothes. This used to not happen, not with the temp I keep my place at night.
Anyone else experience this?
Yes, I experienced that exactly, but around about the time I left I also had a psychosis, and got PTSD, so I've always thought it was that more than a general lgat thing - very interesting!!!!
I definitely found when I left I had a lot of dreams and nightmares and they were mostly about quest, at least once a week usually two or three times a week. When I found this website and started figuring things out, the dreams got worse at first, but they seem to have cleared up now, down to about one bad dream every two three weeks, instead of a few times a week.
Were any of your dreams specifically or metaphorically about landmark? Were they generally good, bad or neutral?
Interesting they don't do gender programming at landmark, and you say people became more neutral... I think it just shows people become whatever they're programmed into, without specific masculine / feminine programming those traits are maybe just overwhelmed by all the other programming?
Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
Zorro
()
Date: September 26, 2007 12:12PM
SaneAgain,
I may have had a few Landmark dreams but I can't recall specifics. A lot of my dreams seem neutral and vague. But the last couple of weeks I've had some really bad dreams. One completely shook me up at the time. It occurred while out of town on a business trip. It was not good at all.
Hey, I just remembered I did have a really bad dream once during my Landmark days. That too shook me up pretty bad.
With regards to gender programming. I didn't see any. But they do offer a "Sex and Intimacy" seminar. I wanted to take it but I missed it, thank God! Don't know what it was about, but I don't think the people that I know that took it have had any better relationships since taking it.
I may have had a few Landmark dreams but I can't recall specifics. A lot of my dreams seem neutral and vague. But the last couple of weeks I've had some really bad dreams. One completely shook me up at the time. It occurred while out of town on a business trip. It was not good at all.
Hey, I just remembered I did have a really bad dream once during my Landmark days. That too shook me up pretty bad.
With regards to gender programming. I didn't see any. But they do offer a "Sex and Intimacy" seminar. I wanted to take it but I missed it, thank God! Don't know what it was about, but I don't think the people that I know that took it have had any better relationships since taking it.
Re: Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
flexicon1996
()
Date: July 11, 2008 10:44PM
Quote
ON2 LF
Perhaps someone could give a psychological explanation for dreams, it may be clearer as to why a person doesn't dream after being psychologically butchered in a landmark forum.
My guess is that the serotonin levels have been depleted by the LGAT experience. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter responsible for regulating mood as well as sleep and dreams, among other things, and it can get "used up" if rapidly released, so it wouldn't surprise me that after the group's intense emotional rollercoaster and self-hypnotic "mind-imagery" sessions, the brain simply can't muster a dream.
The same dreamless period (called "Zen sleep") is also noted in users of psychedelics that monkey around with serotonin balance/release and lasts a few days as the brain recovers its normal levels.
Re: Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
yutolia
()
Date: July 12, 2008 04:25AM
This reminds me of a discussion that I was having with a friend of mine who did Landmark (he is no longer involved, but I can see that he has in no way recovered and/or recognized the damage that has been done) about homophobia. He was talking about how he realized that it is only women who commit violent acts against gay men, and how only women are truly homophobic, and this results from their jealousy over the fact that the gay men are not interested in them. Conversely, he said that Landmark "helped him figure out" that it is not possibly for men to be homophobic because it's natural to find it flattering that someone is attracted to you, and that all the stuff in the media about violent acts by men on homosexuals or women is made up to keep men down and women in power. I thought at first that he was just playing devil's advocate, but then I realized that he actually believed this garbage (not to say that female on male violence doesn't happen, of course it does). I had never been so offended, and I was so shocked that I couldn't say anything else, I just left at that point. After reading many of the posts on this forum, I now think that this is a part of the "reality" that he has created for himself - essentially excusing himself for how much he really hates women.
Re: Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
billie
()
Date: July 12, 2008 04:45AM
Quote
yutolia
This reminds me of a discussion that I was having with a friend of mine who did Landmark (he is no longer involved, but I can see that he has in no way recovered and/or recognized the damage that has been done) about homophobia. He was talking about how he realized that it is only women who commit violent acts against gay men, and how only women are truly homophobic, and this results from their jealousy over the fact that the gay men are not interested in them. Conversely, he said that Landmark "helped him figure out" that it is not possibly for men to be homophobic because it's natural to find it flattering that someone is attracted to you, and that all the stuff in the media about violent acts by men on homosexuals or women is made up to keep men down and women in power. I thought at first that he was just playing devil's advocate, but then I realized that he actually believed this garbage (not to say that female on male violence doesn't happen, of course it does). I had never been so offended, and I was so shocked that I couldn't say anything else, I just left at that point. After reading many of the posts on this forum, I now think that this is a part of the "reality" that he has created for himself - essentially excusing himself for how much he really hates women.
Wow, just wow. Most violence on gay men is perpetrated by straight men and I'm pretty sure you can back that up with cold hard facts. Another example of how tinkering with people's minds and sense of reality can lead to some very dangerous consequences. I assume your friend is a gay man, he really needs to rethink this lest he ends up in a situation like Matthew Shepard.
Re: Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
yutolia
()
Date: July 12, 2008 05:36AM
I know, I have thought of that before too. I've never met someone who was so filled at hate toward someone else, and he wasn't like this before LE.
Re: Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
Enviro_Cop
()
Date: July 13, 2008 08:15AM
Quote
SaneAgainQuote
SaneAgain wrote:Quote
At Impact do they also give "I Am A Man" and "I Am A Woman" type contracts?
I'd love to hear more about these. Who are you contracting with? Is it the same for gay and straight people?
The contract is with your new "self" to govern how you live the rest of your life. Its given in contrast to your old self, which was defined by a "bad name tag" (literally a name tag you had to wear for a few days, saying something like "Trailer Trash" or "Impotent").
They make out that you "choose" your contract but actually the trainers choose it for you, and prompt you and hint until you 'get it' yourself. Its the main conversion process of inquest; getting your contract is really stressful and when you get it, that's when the 'snapping' happens, and you go into shock and the whole group of assistants pick you up and rock you. So its a very influential process. (On a lighter note, when I was psychotic I got hung up on the word 'contract' - I kept thinking it had something to do with the mafia... :lol: )
I don't remember a gay man or woman ever getting an "I Am A Man" or "I Am A Woman" contract... but I always found it weird that there were a lot of gay people in quest and their homosexuality was well accepted, but I always wondered what they thought of these strict gender things, unfortunately I never asked any of them. I do remember the trainer saying something like "a gay man must still be a man" in the context of 'grown up' as opposed to being a boy.
Another thing about gender, and I'm going to quote an apologist (Eileen Barker) here, but I think its a relevant point:Quote
One argument against brainwashing is that cults appeal to people more during "periods of rapid social change, at times when individuals are feeling a lack of structure and belonging . . . and when the credibility of traditional institutions is impaired" (Fox and Levine 2001, p. 142). This explanation of membership emphasizes social as well as life circumstances.
[www.deathreference.com]
I don't think its an argument AGAINST brainwashing, but an argument that is PART OF brainwashing - but the idea of social structure and traditions - I think a lot of men (and women maybe) are threatened by changing gender roles, so the emphasis on traditional roles was maybe comforting and provided a sense of safety and structure - while the repeated statements that women are more powerful was maybe to appease the women with more feminist views... then again!!! Maybe they just talk totally contradictiory and confusing rubbish purely to confuse people. :evil:
SaneAgain
I never made the connection until after reading this.
My ex-wife came home from Discovery Training and told me she wore a name tag describing her old self. She then told me of her new name and contract "guilt free loving blah blah blah".
I now realize that’s when things took a really bad turn in our marriage. That is also the point when the incessant emails, cards, and phone calls began encouraging her to not share with her husband because he won’t get it until he comes to Discovery Training. She said the old person was gone and only the new one remained and I needed to attend all of the Discovery Training courses before I could understand her.
I think that is a really big turning point for the LGAT inductees.
EC
Re: Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: July 22, 2008 01:39AM
Regarding what Zorro and some others have said about losing access to their dreams while involved with their various LGATs:
I think this is serious and excellent that you brought it up. Dreams can give us access to our own inner wisdom and can even warn us away from persons and situations that cannot support our development.
Anything that disrupts both sleep and our access to our own dreams is a hindrance to our own true growth.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2017 07:22PM by rrmoderator.
I think this is serious and excellent that you brought it up. Dreams can give us access to our own inner wisdom and can even warn us away from persons and situations that cannot support our development.
Anything that disrupts both sleep and our access to our own dreams is a hindrance to our own true growth.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2017 07:22PM by rrmoderator.
Re: Sex and Gender in LGATs
Posted by:
too much
()
Date: July 23, 2008 07:03AM
I went to Innner Woman with Impact and noticed that they wanted to change whatever was there. If woman was "butch" they made her feel she had to change to be more feminine. If a woman was scared of sex then they made her run around in lengerie and do dirty dances. If they couldn't identify an easy target, they told us we needed to get in touch with our natural element and personality type (which they prescribed.)
I see it as way to keep us off balance and make us doubt our choices and knowledge of ourselves so much that we must become dependant on them for what to think. If you trust a person who says, "You're doing it wrong or you're thinking the wrong way," it is natural to then trust that person to tell you what the right way is.
The thing to remember is that it all boils down to one thing - them stealing, conniving, tricking us out of our control and power. It can be the power to reason. The control to say "that's bull!" openly. Or simply the power to trust ourselves and leave and take our money with us.
I see it as way to keep us off balance and make us doubt our choices and knowledge of ourselves so much that we must become dependant on them for what to think. If you trust a person who says, "You're doing it wrong or you're thinking the wrong way," it is natural to then trust that person to tell you what the right way is.
The thing to remember is that it all boils down to one thing - them stealing, conniving, tricking us out of our control and power. It can be the power to reason. The control to say "that's bull!" openly. Or simply the power to trust ourselves and leave and take our money with us.
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