Here is another organization to keep your eye on, the Transformational Leadership Council.

[www.transformationalleadershipcouncil.com]

I found out about this organization about a month ago when I was still a member of the Raymond Aaron Monthly Mentor Program (Another good way to waste your money).

I used to recieve monthly CD's from the Monthly Mentor Program which are interviews with different supposedly successful people that Raymond Aaron knows. Anyhow, he interviewed this lady Marcia Martin who is one of his mentors. He was waxing on about this lady and how she helped found an organization that has helped millions of people and is now called Landmark Education. (When I heard that I was so pissed I almost took the CD out my car radio and tossed it out the window :shock: :twisted: ) But I came to my senses and decided to try to listen to the BS to see if I could see what kind of crap they are trying to pull.

I learned that Marcia Martin was one of the founding members of EST with Werner Earhart and that Raymond Aaron had now hooked up with her and Jack Canfield and several others to form this organization.

After discovering this and realizing I had been duped again I cancelled my Monthly Mentor program. I have already gotten screwed once by Landmark. By damned if I am going to let that happen again, even if it is by remote association this time around.

I now question any every person out there that is in the biz of helping people. It's disgusting to think that it seems that all of these people are some how linked up in one way or another.

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Zorro
I now question any every person out there that is in the biz of helping people. It's disgusting to think that it seems that all of these people are some how linked up in one way or another.

No...some of us are licensed with state and national regulatory authorities. We went to accredited universites, got graduate degrees, and earned our way there through experience and clinical supervision. We're linked up by things called the AMA, the ACA, and the APA. We're "in the biz" of helping people. And we're always accountable. Legally.

It's the stigma of seeking counseling that drives people to cults. Don't make the mistake of lumping everyone in together. "Self-help" is what it is: you're relying on a layperson's "expertise."

I over generalized a bit.

I understand the difference between a trained person with academic and professional credentials. What I was referring to mainly are the "Self Help Guru's" that make the Seminar circuits. You know the ones I'm talking about. The guys that do a presentation about how a person can become successful. But oh by the way in order to get the knowledge it costs $3995 but for today only and because I'm also feeling generous I'll sell it to you for $2995!

After my Landmark experience I'm very skeptical and my BS detector is on overdrive. When I was in Landmark I took classes that had practicing Psychologists and Counselors in them. A couple of them may have been in there because they were there to see what was going on. But, a few I know for a fact were caught up in the Landmark babble and were using the "technology" in their work. Because of that fact and how prevelant Landmark and other groups such as Discovery training are in my area I question anyone that can possibly have direct influence over me on where they have been for training. I don't want to go and get help from someone that is going to turn around and use Landmark or some other BS on me again.

Also I now check to see who is connected to whom and what when I look at material that I may consider useful in helping me in my life.

Naievety, lack of research, and going on a friends word with out properly checking things out first landed me in Landmark. I am determined that will never happen again.

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Zorro
I over generalized a bit.
I don't want to go and get help from someone that is going to turn around and use Landmark or some other BS on me again.

Also I now check to see who is connected to whom and what when I look at material that I may consider useful in helping me in my life.

Naievety, lack of research, and going on a friends word with out properly checking things out first landed me in Landmark. I am determined that will never happen again.

Per state law, your therapist/counselor is supposed to have a letter of standards, practices, policies, and procedures...as well as spelling out their education and theory of change, and theraputic techniques.

ANY counselor who is legitimate should be able to FREELY give you this information in writing. You are free to ask them if they have taken any LGAT courses and they are free to respond honestly. LE sells itself as adult education courses and CEUs for business people, so they should have ZERO problem admitting that if they've been involved.

Also, LE has psychs on board to try to legitimize their corporation.

How well has that worked for them? ;-)

I was looking for my vegetarian cookbook and came accross one of my old counselling textbooks: (Theory and Practice in Counselling and Psychotherapy - Corey Ellis) - On the chapter on Cognitive-Behaviour Therapy, I had a post-it note on page 321.

"VIEW OF EMOTIONAL DISTURBANCE - We originally learn irrational beliefs from significant others during our childhood. Additionally, we create irrational dogmas and superstitions by ourselves. Then we actively reinstill self-defeating beliefs by the processes of autosuggesiton and self-repetition and by behaving as if they are useful. Hence, it is largely our repetitions of early-indoctrinated irrational thoughts,rather than a parent's repetition, that keeps dysfunctional attributes alive and operative within us.

Rational emotive behaviour therapy insists that blame is the core of most emotional disturbances. Therefore, if we are to recover from a neurosis or a personality disorder, we had better stop blaming ourselves and others.

Instead, it is important that we learn to accept ourselves despite our imperfections."


I guess the point I would like to make is that we can all manage to mess ourselves up with our negative thinking, we certainly do not need Landmark and other LGATs speed up the process.

'shad'

oh yes, and about the BS detector: - when you get that gut feeling that something just does not "feel" or "smell" right (believe it or not I have an ultra-sensitive olfactory system, and I really do "smell" when something is not quite right!!) ...anyway, I digress... also, that little voice in your head, LISTEN TO IT...

I got so mad with (Ron I think it was), the Leader kept TELLING the people in the audience just what "that little voice in your head" was saying; I nearly yelled out, "How the f@#$ do you know what MY little voice is telling me - you're not in my head!!!!" sheesh! - and people were lapping this up...what a load of crap!

'shad'

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The Shadow
oh yes, and about the BS detector: - when you get that gut feeling that something just does not "feel" or "smell" right (believe it or not I have an ultra-sensitive olfactory system, and I really do "smell" when something is not quite right!!) ...anyway, I digress... also, that little voice in your head, LISTEN TO IT...
'shad'

Man I should have trusted my olfactory system the first time I walked into the Landmark building....I grew up on a small farm/ranch in a farming and ranching part of the state and have spent my share of time around cattle...I kept having flashbacks to a corral full of bulls....I kept wanting to have a "breakthrough" with regards to the smell eminating from the place. I kept wearing my Ropers and Jeans to class constantly worried I was going to mess up the polish job I would do each time before class on my boots and get "green stuff" on my pants legs. Evertime I took a step in the hall way I felt something mushy under my feet.....could it have been....nawwww.....couldn't have.....heard mentality.....weird smells....oh my!!!! I think I steped in something..... :shock: :shock: Bulls**t.......

Aww hell this is funny!!!! The instructors would actually referr to s**t pies coverd in cake icing as a way things can occurr to us in the world. Maybe their subconcious mind was causing them to own up to us verbally to what a bunch of crap it was they were feeding us :lol:

Thanks for the analogy Shad. I am LMFAO right now :lol:

Hi Zorro,

It IS interesting how the mind works. I remember when I was attending one of the "new age flakey type courses", I would be walking downtown at 7:00 a.m. surrounded by cement buildings, not a garden in sight, but I could smell the strong aroma of roses. I have since discovered that the smell of roses is associated with love/compassion.

I also think that I am highly susceptable to olfactory halucinations. I think it is highly possible your subconscious was working overtime, trying to send you signals, trying to make to LISTEN TO THE LITTLE VOICE IN YOUR HEAD. You were not listening to it, so maybe bombarded you with the shell of shit, again, trying to get your attention.

The brain is marvelous, as you know, and complicated. While our processes are all similar, the messages we recieve will be different depending on our upbringing.

Don't you think the symbology is interesting?

regards,
'shad'

yep, it is good you can laugh about it now.

I'm trying to bring humor back into my life. I kind of lost my sense of humor during my tenure as a Lekkie. As they say in the non Lekkie world, Laughter is the best medicine....I'd rather laugh than be on Prozak!

Raymond Aaron is a sleazy con-artist of the highest order.
It would not be surprising if he created his own fake surname, so his name would be first on lists of names! (Aaron)
The guy is atrocious, and will hopefully end up in jail someday.

There are some other threads in this forum about Jack Canfield and how he created that awful "Transformational" leadership scam. Clearly its closely related to Landmark.
What is gross about Jack Canfield is that he can seem so genuine and low-key in interviews. He is highly skilled in the soft-sell, he should make your skin crawl if your BS detectors work.

If you look at the list of people on that list, its got most of the scammers from The Secret, and many other LGAT cult groups.
I think Rhonda Byrne's name used to be on that list, but now its not! Clearly Jack Canfield and Rhonda Byrne are probably in a WAR over the money money money money from The Secret. They folks are simply hypocrites.
Here name still appears here though.
www.transformationalleadershipcouncil.com/public_pdf/tlc_member_list.pdf
Probably forgot to delete it. What a bunch of freakin scammers hypocrites.

Yes, they are all in the same Bidniz, to make themselves really rich by simply Speaking and selling you Books, and to make you think you can "Transform" yourself by giving them your money.

Frankly, its a DISGRACE to have one's name on that list.