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Financial success indeed - the only people who get that are the con-artists selling the crummy product!

The windfalls today may result in horrible landslides later in life...success can't be stolen, it has to achieved.

I got out of Landmark in June 2007 when I finally realized that they are a cult and the negative impact on my life that being in Landmark was creating. The thing that got me out of Landmark is that the woman that I'm dating started pointing things out to me that didn't make sense. So I stated questioning what was going on. She was persistent otherwise I might still be in there.

Another friend of mine had pointed out the same things but I was too caught up in the Landmark BS to believe her. I eventually stopped being her friend and now only occasionally talk with her.

My other friends knew something was up but didn't say anything.

So my own advice to people who have friends and loved ones in Landmark or thinking about joining Landmark is to be persistant. Point out the obvious, such as changes in behavior, job performance, and just plain reality. Also be prepared to face the fact that your loved one may not leave Landmark and also may stop associating with you.

When I left Landmark I contacted the friends that I made in Landmark and tried to convince them to leave. None of them have left. But one seems to be toying with the idea. I sadly realized the friends that I made in Landmark are so caught up in it that they may never get out of it. Also a lot of them tried to get me to go back to Landmark.

Which brings up another aspect. If you have a friend or loved one that does leave Landmark. There will be pleanty of Landmark people trying to get the person to come back. Including Landmark staff. So at this point you need to stand your ground and support the person.

When you friend or loved one leaves. You need to be there for them emotionally. They will be lost, confused, and angry. They will need someone to talk too so be ready to listen. Also, try to get them to go and get professional psychological help from a trained psychologist. They will most likely need it.

Luckily for me I have many friends I could talk to about it. They were there for me and were glad I was out of Landmark. I have also done a lot of getting over Landmark on my own. I've come a long way but I still have a ways to go unfortunately.

I will also offer this to those out there being approached by Landmark people or have friends and family in Landmark. Ask me about Landmark and I'll tell you what I know about it and my experience. I took the Forum, Advanced Course, and most of the SELP, a couple of seminars, the Communications Course, and most of the Advanced Communications Course, I also assisted a couple of times, and was a group leader during a couple of the 10 week seminars I took. So I have recent first hand knowledge of the organization and what goes on.

Landmark definately isn't what it's purported to be and can definately damage people if they are vulnerable. Also they can influence anyone if the right circumstances are present. That's what happened to me. I was one of those people that thought I couldn't be taken and I got sucked in and messed with.

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I got out of Landmark in June 2007 when I finally realized that they are a cult and the negative impact on my life that being in Landmark was creating. The thing that got me out of Landmark is that the woman that I'm dating started pointing things out to me that didn't make sense. So I stated questioning what was going on. She was persistent otherwise I might still be in there.

Welcome back to free living again, zorro. It is encouraging to know that you would still make it out in spite of how deeply involved you were. How were you able to begin questioning what was going on, when at the time the discrepancies must have seemed absurd to you?

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Zorro
I got out of Landmark in June 2007 when I finally realized that they are a cult and the negative impact on my life that being in Landmark was creating. The thing that got me out of Landmark is that the woman that I'm dating started pointing things out to me that didn't make sense. So I stated questioning what was going on. She was persistent otherwise I might still be in there.

Another friend of mine had pointed out the same things but I was too caught up in the Landmark BS to believe her. I eventually stopped being her friend and now only occasionally talk with her.

My other friends knew something was up but didn't say anything.

So my own advice to people who have friends and loved ones in Landmark or thinking about joining Landmark is to be persistant. Point out the obvious, such as changes in behavior, job performance, and just plain reality. Also be prepared to face the fact that your loved one may not leave Landmark and also may stop associating with you.

When I left Landmark I contacted the friends that I made in Landmark and tried to convince them to leave. None of them have left. But one seems to be toying with the idea. I sadly realized the friends that I made in Landmark are so caught up in it that they may never get out of it. Also a lot of them tried to get me to go back to Landmark.

Which brings up another aspect. If you have a friend or loved one that does leave Landmark. There will be pleanty of Landmark people trying to get the person to come back. Including Landmark staff. So at this point you need to stand your ground and support the person.

When you friend or loved one leaves. You need to be there for them emotionally. They will be lost, confused, and angry. They will need someone to talk too so be ready to listen. Also, try to get them to go and get professional psychological help from a trained psychologist. They will most likely need it.

Luckily for me I have many friends I could talk to about it. They were there for me and were glad I was out of Landmark. I have also done a lot of getting over Landmark on my own. I've come a long way but I still have a ways to go unfortunately.

I will also offer this to those out there being approached by Landmark people or have friends and family in Landmark. Ask me about Landmark and I'll tell you what I know about it and my experience. I took the Forum, Advanced Course, and most of the SELP, a couple of seminars, the Communications Course, and most of the Advanced Communications Course, I also assisted a couple of times, and was a group leader during a couple of the 10 week seminars I took. So I have recent first hand knowledge of the organization and what goes on.

Landmark definately isn't what it's purported to be and can definately damage people if they are vulnerable. Also they can influence anyone if the right circumstances are present. That's what happened to me. I was one of those people that thought I couldn't be taken and I got sucked in and messed with.

Zorro,
Hello and welcome to the Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential" Seminars topic section of the Cult Education Forum message board. You will find through reading other posts that many people have had experiences similar to yours and have also decided to end their associations with Landmark Education and stop promoting the Landmark Forum.

I am sure that others may have questions for you, but I am most interested in the nature of the work you performed for the company while you "assisted" as a volunteer. Did you know that Landmark Education has been investigated twice in France by the French Federal labor bureau, and three times in the United States by the Federal Department of Labor? Actually, the most recent investigation in the United States concluded in 2006 out of the Texas branch of the United States Federal Department of Labor.
[www.culteducation.com]

If you want to contact them for further information or to formally lodge a complaint, you may be eligible for back wages for all of the time you spent as a volunteer, plus payment for any costs of litigation in that matter. If you wish, the United States Federal Department of Labor will keep your identity confidential while you pursue this.

Here is the contact info for the Texas branch, what you do is up to you :
[www.dol.gov]

Good luck, and thank you again for posting here, we really appreciate your presence.

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ON2 LF
Welcome back to free living again, zorro. It is encouraging to know that you would still make it out in spite of how deeply involved you were. How were you able to begin questioning what was going on, when at the time the discrepancies must have seemed absurd to you?

Well for one I started wondering when the so called wonderful success was going to start happening for me. By nature I am a results oriented person, which unfortunately contributed partly into me getting involved in the first place. Anyhow, I work in sales and my performance is constantly under evaluation and my results are posted for everyone in my organization to see. Well my sales fell off to zero, and I was unable to close deals. I was using the "technology" they taught in my business deals and it wasn't working. That was a big Red Flag for me.

The second and equally Big Flag was that the woman I am dating told me that I wasn't the same man that she had met and that I wasn't thinking for myself. I was like what the hell are you talking about? I didn't like what she was saying at all. This caused me to start thinking about what could have happened. Eventually I tracked it back to when I took the Advanced Course.

The third thing is that because of my job I am around of a lot of successful people. My Landmark instructors kept telling us that in order to have success in our lives and get what we want we need to basically operate in the way that Landmark teaches us and to use the technology. But most importantly in order to ensure success we needed to get the people around us (such as friends, family, and business associates) to take the Forum and Landmark. This made me uncomfortable, I was not about to ask one of my customers to join Landmark. I'm there to sell them my companies products not recruit them to Landmark. How am I supposed to tell a man with a High School Eduaction that owns a successful business and is a multi millionaire that he needs Landmark to be successful? How am I supposed to tell an Engineer that just built a totally bad ass piece of machinery that he needs Landmark to be successful. After all these guys made it to where they are on their own without Landmark. This caused me to question what I was seeing in Landmark. NONE of the people around me in Landmark could be considered successful in the standard way that most people around the world correlate success too. All I was seeing around me was a bunch of people with "issues" that seem to be getting worse. Then the one or two people that could be deemed as successful were quitting what they were doing to go do "their calling" which didn't look that lucrative to me.

The final straw came when I was in the Advanced Communications course. I had already made up my mind that I was through with Landmark. But what sealed the deal for me was an exersie that we had to do where we were told to stand up and sit down reapeatedly for what seemed like an eternity. The instructor told us to "Choose Sit" then "Choose Stand" a friend of mine refused to sit. Then was manipulated to sit down by the instructor. I got pissed but continued with the exercise. After it was over we were asked what we saw. People spoke up. The instructor told us that we don't have control over our own lives and that everything in the world manipulates us and that basically the only thing we can do is choose to follow along. This really ticked me off. So I confronted the instructor about it and told her that "No one tells me what to do. I make my own choices and that I choose whether or not I want to do something." She told me that that was not the case and I don't have a choice. So I rebutted with the remark to the effect of "So your telling me I don't have a choice and that when Landmark tells me something that I don't have a choice and that I have to do it." Her reply was "Yes! You don't have a choice!" and that I have to do what I'm told (to sum things up). I was like "F*ck You!" I didn't say it but it was clearly written all over my face. The whole interaction brought silence to the class, you could have heard a pin drop in there. The instructor got pissed and was a real bitch to the class during the rest of the evening.

Oh and by the way what else came to my mind during the exercise? Can you say Jonestown! LOL That was one of the first things that popped into my mind when we were asked what we saw in the exercise. Maybe it was because the class was a few weeks after the anniversery of Jonestown who knows, but anyway that's what I thought about it.

The Advanced Communications Course sealed the deal for me. Through it I finally got to see that I was clearly and purposly being manipulated and brained washed. I was pissed and freaked out. I felt like Neo waking up to reality in the Matrix!

Theres some more Red Flags, such as the constant push for people to recurit. I could write a novel here...but it would take up too much space. LOL...

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ajinajan
Did you know that Landmark Education has been investigated twice in France by the French Federal labor bureau, and three times in the United States by the Federal Department of Labor? Actually, the most recent investigation in the United States concluded in 2006 out of the Texas branch of the United States Federal Department of Labor.

Ajinajan,

The Landmark branch you are referring to is the exact same branch that I voulteered / assisted at.

They wanted me to commit to an assisting agreement. I actually had to fill out some paper work when I volunteered to help out at a couple of seminars.

I helped to set up chairs, man the phone a couple of times, and do what I call some gophering around the facility for some nit noid crap.

They try to get people to sign up for an "Assisting Agreement" where the individual agrees in writing to volunteer to work there for several hours through out the week.

When I volunteered I was shocked at how disorganized the event was and how uptight and annoyed the staff looked. They looked frustrated. I was like where are all the shiny happy faces that I'm used to seeing. The only shiny happy people there were us drones moving chairs and setting up tables.

I was also thinking to myself "How is this supposed to help me have a break through. How can moving chairs and aligning name tags in a row cause me to have a breakthrough. The only breakthrough I got was how the ILP leader treated grown adult men and women like a bunch of snot nosed elementry school children." I found it to be humiliating to the participants. I also found it riduculus that the one of the higher up staff members would get upset if the name tags weren't aligned in a certain way or the ink pens weren't laid out a certain way. I mean come on people, this is absurd. I guess it trains people to get bogged down in details so they can't think for themself and become fearful of not doing something right.

I refused to volunteer anymore because of how much time I was devoting to Landmark. It was starting to cut into my life outside of Landmark. I have a lot going on all the time and really like my free time for myself. By this time I had all but cut out participating in my hobbies and other pursuits. When I wasn't working at my job it seemed I was doing Landmark BS related to the seminars I was participating in.

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Zorro

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ajinajan
Did you know that Landmark Education has been investigated twice in France by the French Federal labor bureau, and three times in the United States by the Federal Department of Labor? Actually, the most recent investigation in the United States concluded in 2006 out of the Texas branch of the United States Federal Department of Labor.

Ajinajan,

The Landmark branch you are referring to is the exact same branch that I voulteered / assisted at.

They wanted me to commit to an assisting agreement. I actually had to fill out some paper work when I volunteered to help out at a couple of seminars.

I helped to set up chairs, man the phone a couple of times, and do what I call some gophering around the facility for some nit noid crap.

They try to get people to sign up for an "Assisting Agreement" where the individual agrees in writing to volunteer to work there for several hours through out the week.

When I volunteered I was shocked at how disorganized the event was and how uptight and annoyed the staff looked. They looked frustrated. I was like where are all the shiny happy faces that I'm used to seeing. The only shiny happy people there were us drones moving chairs and setting up tables.

I was also thinking to myself "How is this supposed to help me have a break through. How can moving chairs and aligning name tags in a row cause me to have a breakthrough. The only breakthrough I got was how the ILP leader treated grown adult men and women like a bunch of snot nosed elementry school children." I found it to be humiliating to the participants. I also found it riduculus that the one of the higher up staff members would get upset if the name tags weren't aligned in a certain way or the ink pens weren't laid out a certain way. I mean come on people, this is absurd. I guess it trains people to get bogged down in details so they can't think for themself and become fearful of not doing something right.

I refused to volunteer anymore because of how much time I was devoting to Landmark. It was starting to cut into my life outside of Landmark. I have a lot going on all the time and really like my free time for myself. By this time I had all but cut out participating in my hobbies and other pursuits. When I wasn't working at my job it seemed I was doing Landmark BS related to the seminars I was participating in.

Zorro,
Thank you so much for posting this. We all really appreciate your information and your candor.
Here is the specific investigation out of the Texas Federal Department of Labor Office:
[www.culteducation.com]
And here is the specific contact information for the Texas branches of the United States Federal Department of Labor :
[www.dol.gov]

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Texas

Dallas District Office
US Dept. of Labor
ESA Wage & Hour Division
The Offices @ Brookhollow
1701 E. Lamar Blvd., Suite 270, Box 22
Arlington, TX 76006-7303
Phone:
1-866-4-USWAGE
(1-866-487-9243)
Curtis L. Poer
District Director

Houston District Office
US Dept. of Labor
ESA Wage & Hour Division
8701 S.Gessner Drive, Suite 1164
Houston, TX 77074-2944
Phone:
1-866-4-USWAGE
(1-866-487-9243)
Martin Barrow
District Director

San Antonio District Office
US Dept. of Labor
ESA Wage & Hour Division
Northchase 1 Office Building
10127 Morocco, Suite 140
San Antonio, TX 78216
Phone:
1-866-4-USWAGE
(1-866-487-9243)
Nicasio Flores
District Director

To reiterate, if you decide to lodge a complaint, you can contact them by phone or by mail, and they will keep your identity confidential during the process. You may be entitled to backwages for any time you spent volunteering arranging chairs and making nametags and pens straight on the table. You may also be entitled to reimbursement for any and all attorney's costs during that time.
If you decide to get in touch with the Texas branch of the United States Federal Department of Labor, please do keep us posted.
Yours,
ajinajan

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The final straw came when I was in the Advanced Communications course. I had already made up my mind that I was through with Landmark. But what sealed the deal for me was an exersie that we had to do where we were told to stand up and sit down reapeatedly for what seemed like an eternity. The instructor told us to "Choose Sit" then "Choose Stand" a friend of mine refused to sit. Then was manipulated to sit down by the instructor. I got pissed but continued with the exercise. After it was over we were asked what we saw. People spoke up. The instructor told us that we don't have control over our own lives and that everything in the world manipulates us and that basically the only thing we can do is choose to follow along. This really ticked me off. So I confronted the instructor about it and told her that "No one tells me what to do. I make my own choices and that I choose whether or not I want to do something." She told me that that was not the case and I don't have a choice. So I rebutted with the remark to the effect of "So your telling me I don't have a choice and that when Landmark tells me something that I don't have a choice and that I have to do it." Her reply was "Yes! You don't have a choice!" and that I have to do what I'm told (to sum things up). I was like "F*ck You!" I didn't say it but it was clearly written all over my face. The whole interaction brought silence to the class, you could have heard a pin drop in there. The instructor got pissed and was a real bitch to the class during the rest of the evening.

Oh and by the way what else came to my mind during the exercise? Can you say Jonestown! LOL That was one of the first things that popped into my mind when we were asked what we saw in the exercise. Maybe it was because the class was a few weeks after the anniversery of Jonestown who knows, but anyway that's what I thought about it.

The Advanced Communications Course sealed the deal for me. Through it I finally got to see that I was clearly and purposly being manipulated and brained washed. I was pissed and freaked out. I felt like Neo waking up to reality in the Matrix!

Theres some more Red Flags, such as the constant push for people to recurit. I could write a novel here...but it would take up too much space. LOL...

so, basically it was the 'in your face' type of contradictions that landmark is riddled with. Like [i:732d5e2073]ordering[/i:732d5e2073] you what to [u:732d5e2073]choose[/u:732d5e2073] and telling you to tell successful people [i:732d5e2073]how[/i:732d5e2073] to succeed, or guaranteeing success in all the areas of your life that they are actually draining and destroying. Landmark's 'dumb and dumber' approach to mind control, propelled by the ability of a sociopath to bullshit, is what keeps landmark alive. It seems to me that landmark is staggering on the brink of extinction everytime they run a forum or an advanced course.
This thought gives me much encouragement and I hope that there will be more people like you reporting their freedom here soon, zorro.

Also, your posting here prompts me to want to be more patient with the friend I lost to landmark. I know she doesn't have anyone left if she leaves landmark (not that she has any friends there). Thanks for choosing to post here, and like sonnie-dee, you present a good case as to why lekkie's 'outside' friends should not walk away from them forever.

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ON2 LF
Also, your posting here prompts me to want to be more patient with the friend I lost to landmark. I know she doesn't have anyone left if she leaves landmark (not that she has any friends there). Thanks for choosing to post here, and like sonnie-dee, you present a good case as to why lekkie's 'outside' friends should not walk away from them forever.

ON2 LF,

Hopefully your friend will keep an open line of communication with you. However, many of my old Landmark friends have stopped talking with me. However it sounds like she has a lot of Landmark friends now, which is her current support group. I myself found at the end that most of the friends I communicated with were all from Landmark. I had drifted away from most of my friends and social circle. Even though Landmark claims that they don't isolate people like a cult does and instead incourage interaction. What happens is that instead people tend to associate most with the people they are in contact with the most (aka fellow Lekkies). Gradually they drift away from the people in the real world. There is also sort of an arrogance that goes with it since Lekkies think they have it all figured out and the rest of the world is merely going through the motions of life and need to be saved by Landmark and its technology. This attitude just further isolates Lekkies from their non Lekkie friends.

One glimmer of hope for you and your friend is that Landmark teaches people to "clean up" things with the people in their life. I've seen Landmark participants keep trying to futility to open up communications with people that don't want to talk with them. Many times its with people that they've had past conflicts with. Other times it's with people that are sick of hearing about Landmark from their friends.

The participants can get really wrapped up in trying to "clean things up" with their friend, relatives, etc. Because of this there is a possibility that your friend will try to clean things up with you at some point and want to "share" with you. Everytime your friend "shares" with you is an opportunity for you to bring her back to reality.

I've seen people start talking to people that they shouldn't or talk about things better left alone and come back to the seminar in shambles and crying. They would get up and "share" with the class. I really feel sorry for these people now. They were / are in need of professional counseling. Not in the care of someone trying to play psychologist. I strongly feel that not only were these unfortunate people retramuatizing themselves the whole ordeal affects the group of people in the class room possibly traumatizing others in the process. I've seen people start crying when people get up in front a class and tell what happened. Really disturbing when I think about it.

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Zorro

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ON2 LF
Also, your posting here prompts me to want to be more patient with the friend I lost to landmark. I know she doesn't have anyone left if she leaves landmark (not that she has any friends there). Thanks for choosing to post here, and like sonnie-dee, you present a good case as to why lekkie's 'outside' friends should not walk away from them forever.

ON2 LF,

The participants can get really wrapped up in trying to "clean things up" with their friend, relatives, etc. Because of this there is a possibility that your friend will try to clean things up with you at some point and want to "share" with you. Everytime your friend "shares" with you is an opportunity for you to bring her back to reality.

I've seen people start talking to people that they shouldn't or talk about things better left alone and come back to the seminar in shambles and crying. They would get up and "share" with the class. I really feel sorry for these people now. They were / are in need of professional counseling. Not in the care of someone trying to play psychologist. I strongly feel that not only were these unfortunate people retramuatizing themselves the whole ordeal affects the group of people in the class room possibly traumatizing others in the process. I've seen people start crying when people get up in front a class and tell what happened. Really disturbing when I think about it.

I was in during a work day once and I noticed that. It was a sad...'grasping at straws' to find things to share sort of thing, if that makes sense.

What you said just sparked something I was unaware of: I think my ex was involved in being a "drama queen" (per her admittance near the end) for the sake of creating havok, using the "technology" to repair it, and sharing about our intimate relatioship with strangers. That thought saddens me...she shared on many occasions that she'd told a crowd of 50 people intimate details about _my_ life. I never signed a release granting permission.

The more I find out about how LE works, the more it causes me pain. I feel cheap as the relationship now seems "manufactured," or "synthetic."

Inauthentic works, though.