Loads of good advice here. I think the main point is that you can't expect change. Obviously you don't want to have a friendship based on control, and wanting someone to change is a form of control. I know this sounds harsh because deep down we want the best for our 'loved' ones. Yeah, we can see where our friends are going (straying), but they have to find their own way out. I'm not suggesting that we don't stick to our beliefs, but that's the point - it's like fire verses fire - they're just as convinced that they're on the right path as we are.

So, my advice is to be better than them. Prove that you haven't lost the way by being available to them on your own terms. This basically means that you don't follow them blindly to Landmark meetings and you definitely don't support their habit by giving them money. It's like a drug (I know this analogy has been used many times) and as the wiser person in this relationship you have to exercise patience. Obviously this person means a great deal to you and that should be enough resolve to stick it out. But not forever. You have to look after yourself, too.

What I've written is based on similar experiences. For me, it's sometimes easiest just to walk away and ignore these people, but, unfortunately, they are 'family' and it pains me a great deal to just walk. So, if it's any comfort, I'm having to exercise great amounts of patience myself. Besides, don't dwell on it too much and get on with the other parts of your life.

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Jack Oskar Larm
Loads of good advice here. I think the main point is that you can't expect change. Obviously you don't want to have a friendship based on control, and wanting someone to change is a form of control. I know this sounds harsh because deep down we want the best for our 'loved' ones. Yeah, we can see where our friends are going (straying), but they have to find their own way out. I'm not suggesting that we don't stick to our beliefs, but that's the point - it's like fire verses fire - they're just as convinced that they're on the right path as we are.

So, my advice is to be better than them. Prove that you haven't lost the way by being available to them on your own terms. This basically means that you don't follow them blindly to Landmark meetings and you definitely don't support their habit by giving them money. It's like a drug (I know this analogy has been used many times) and as the wiser person in this relationship you have to exercise patience. Obviously this person means a great deal to you and that should be enough resolve to stick it out. But not forever. You have to look after yourself, too.

What I've written is based on similar experiences. For me, it's sometimes easiest just to walk away and ignore these people, but, unfortunately, they are 'family' and it pains me a great deal to just walk. So, if it's any comfort, I'm having to exercise great amounts of patience myself. Besides, don't dwell on it too much and get on with the other parts of your life.

Agreed. Consider it done. I think my friend knows who on2 lf is on this site and I don't imagine it should require too much brainwork to figure why she doesn't hear from me via superficial e-mails after today.

Buddy, if you're still checking out this site in disgust, please understand you're never forgotten but I have to let go until you choose to return as you were, again. You will always have a friend in me, as long as its you and not what landmark turned you into. You are missed always.

As an ex lekkie I have to add that those friends who toughed it out for me are the ones that I am forever grateful to. It was hard on them but they stayed in contact even though at times it was very strained, and sometimes with gaps in the middle they still kept in contact.

They set some pretty strong boundries which I actually stuck to mostly which included absolutely no attempts by me to register them into any programes or to invite them to any introductions.

You need to decide whether you can stick out the distance..are you able to stay a friend in the hard times

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sonnie_dee
As an ex lekkie I have to add that those friends who toughed it out for me are the ones that I am forever grateful to. It was hard on them but they stayed in contact even though at times it was very strained, and sometimes with gaps in the middle they still kept in contact.

They set some pretty strong boundries which I actually stuck to mostly which included absolutely no attempts by me to register them into any programes or to invite them to any introductions.

You need to decide whether you can stick out the distance..are you able to stay a friend in the hard times

Wise words. And those are some really good bounaries you mentioned.

I think we have pretty much said these rules for the zombies so far :

1) Absolutely no attempts "register" friends into any programs.
2) Do not invite friends to "introductions".
3) Do not use Landmark Education jargon, or loaded language.

If your Landmark Education entrenched friend can abide by these (3) rules, that might make things a little more bearable.

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ajinajan

I think we have pretty much said these rules for the zombies so far :

1) Absolutely no attempts "register" friends into any programs.
2) Do not invite friends to "introductions".
3) Do not use Landmark Education jargon, or loaded language.

If your Landmark Education entrenched friend can abide by these (3) rules, that might make things a little more bearable.

You forgot:
4) Do NOT reroute all conversations back to LANDMARK.

Can they NOT use the jargon? Do they even KNOW they're using jargon? Certainly, they don't know they've been programmed.

skeptic

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skeptic
Can they NOT use the jargon? Do they even KNOW they're using jargon? Certainly, they don't know they've been programmed.

skeptic

If they learned the "distinctions" then they know it's jargon on some level.

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1) Absolutely no attempts "register" friends into any programs.
2) Do not invite friends to "introductions".
3) Do not use Landmark Education jargon, or loaded language.

If your Landmark Education entrenched friend can abide by these (3) rules, that might make things a little more bearable.

My landmark friend uses the jargon like we use the terms "the" or "and". She uses the language like a person who cannot communicate without the use of the jargon. She has not attempted to recruit me for a long time but she's always on the look-out for someone to recruit. Her belief is that I am the one who needs to make the 'attitude adjustment' as she lives out her pursuit of the lekkie dream. Even when she is not actively trying to recruit me, she cannot disguise how judgmental she is toward me. Her attitude is clear in her manner, distant receptivity, and in her behaviour. I would love to be a friend through the bad times but she does not want a friend like me in this time of her life, she wants a convert to lekkie doctrines and someone who will continually encourage and stroke her ego. I of course, will not do any of those things. She continues to do coaching, introductions, and seeks out more courses to abuse herself with.

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As an ex lekkie I have to add that those friends who toughed it out for me are the ones that I am forever grateful to. It was hard on them but they stayed in contact even though at times it was very strained, and sometimes with gaps in the middle they still kept in contact.

They set some pretty strong boundries which I actually stuck to mostly which included absolutely no attempts by me to register them into any programes or to invite them to any introductions.

You need to decide whether you can stick out the distance..are you able to stay a friend in the hard times

Your friends must have seen a ray of hope in you during your involvement to have been so faithful to you. I don't see the ray of hope for recovery in my friendship because my friend happens to be a very self-assured, never wrong, and proud person. Even if she were to be thinking that she'd been had in a big way by landmark, she would be too proud to humble herself enough to say she was wrong and that she still needs a friend like me in her life. I would bet that you never had the issues with pride that my friend does.
I will remain open to her if she ever needs or wants a friendship, but I will not pursue the friendship like I've always had to either. Her involvement and conversion to this malicious cult has deeply impacted and messed with me personally, I cannot let the impact affect or dictate to my everyday life anymore.

quote]1I will remain open to her if she ever needs or wants a friendship, but I will not pursue the friendship like I've always had to either. Her involvement and conversion to this malicious cult has deeply impacted and messed with me personally, I cannot let the impact affect or dictate to my everyday life anymore.[/quote]

Well, the you're now a "success story" on a friendship she's kept. Because that's how you'll be referred to in courses, like a sales-prop.

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skeptic
Can they NOT use the jargon? Do they even KNOW they're using jargon? Certainly, they don't know they've been programmed.

skeptic

Asking about the jargon can be a deprogramming opportunity. After my husband was indoctrinated by Release Technique, it really seemed to help that when he would use loaded language I would say "I don't understand the way you are using that word, would you explain it to me?" Usually he couldn't explain it very well but it got him thinking again.

Also, I continued to use words like 'mind" as they are used in ordinary English frequently rather than change to the LGAT dialect.

He has pretty much stopped using the jargon, around me at least . Now if only he could see that he was brainwashed. [sigh].