Does it become necessary at some point to walk away from a person who was once a friend (or family member)but is now a lekkie? Would walking away simply be an act of abandonment?

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ON2 LF
Does it become necessary at some point to walk away from a person who was once a friend (or family member)but is now a lekkie? Would walking away simply be an act of abandonment?

That depends.

Is it possible to communicate with them without them attempting to get you to pay for The Landmark Forum ? Can you have a conversation with them without them using Landmark Education jargon or "loaded language" ?

If not, perhaps not walking away, but just saying you want a break for a short while is a good idea.

I can't help but wonder if there is anything left to hold onto in a lekkie relationship after they've become cold, disconnected, and aloof. Are they still the same person underneath the shell or have they really become a drone?

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ajinajan

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ON2 LF
Does it become necessary at some point to walk away from a person who was once a friend (or family member)but is now a lekkie? Would walking away simply be an act of abandonment?

That depends.

Is it possible to communicate with them without them attempting to get you to pay for The Landmark Forum ? Can you have a conversation with them without them using Landmark Education jargon or "loaded language" ?

If not, perhaps not walking away, but just saying you want a break for a short while is a good idea.

Just the fact alone that many people used to be obsessed brainwashed zombies in one cult or another and have since done a 180 should be enough to show that there is a living breathing, thinking person SOMEWHERE inside there.

For a good illustration, I highly recommend the most excellent, award-winning film, TICKET TO HEAVEN. It's available on DVD.

It's just not worth the pain. My ex ended up walking away from me, just vanishing from my life.

I should have walked away the first time and stayed gone when I had sense.

She WAS aloof, unkind, cold, and disconnected before she left. I remember one time, completely out of character for her, she started to imitate and mock my voice...that was about 3 days before she bolted. Her imitation of my voice was a yokel or redneck accent, apparently the way Americans are viewed.

I guess before Landmark she hadn't allowed herself to be unkind and speak straight from the Id.

You run, don't walk.

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Just the fact alone that many people used to be obsessed brainwashed zombies in one cult or another and have since done a 180 should be enough to show that there is a living breathing, thinking person SOMEWHERE inside there.

For a good illustration, I highly recommend the most excellent, award-winning film, TICKET TO HEAVEN. It's available on DVD.

this is what I keep concluding as well. Somewhere in the debris is the same person who just wanted more out of life and living than what they perceived they had. Problem I have is, how do you know if they're ever going to be well again?
I've heard of The Ticket To Heaven but never watched it, I will see about doing just that.

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I guess before Landmark she hadn't allowed herself to be unkind and speak straight from the Id.

You run, don't walk.

I keep thinking the very same thing as well. Problem here is that if I ran, I'd be a model for what landmark teaches and causes.
I struggle with the thought that, in landmarkia, no one has a true friend. If a person snaps out of the lekkie trance, they've got no one left to be there for them. If I walk or run, my friend is left in the same boat. Where is the healthy boundary?

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I keep thinking the very same thing as well. Problem here is that if I ran, I'd be a model for what landmark teaches and causes.
I struggle with the thought that, in landmarkia, no one has a true friend. If a person snaps out of the lekkie trance, they've got no one left to be there for them. If I walk or run, my friend is left in the same boat. Where is the healthy boundary?

The healthy boundary is what's healthy for you. Forget what Landmark drones may or may not think. Does your friend show any sign of wanting to change? You don't have to run, you can leave but make it clear that the door is still open should your friend have a change of heart. But don't make a martyr of yourself.

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The healthy boundary is what's healthy for you. Forget what Landmark drones may or may not think. Does your friend show any sign of wanting to change? You don't have to run, you can leave but make it clear that the door is still open should your friend have a change of heart. But don't make a martyr of yourself.

What's healthy to me is being a friend through thick, thin, sick, or healthy. What tugs at me is the nagging thought that there is a good possibility that the friend who needs a loyal friend will never know the light of reality again. How can she change what she perceives to be unchangeable in perfection?

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ON2 LF
I struggle with the thought that, in landmarkia, no one has a true friend. If a person snaps out of the lekkie trance, they've got no one left to be there for them. If I walk or run, my friend is left in the same boat. Where is the healthy boundary?

That's true. If I hadn't kept my normal friends, If they didn't keep in touch with me even when - especially when - I started to lose them for a full-time landmarkia life, I don't know If I'd ever got free. I started to want out when I started to miss my old friends and my old life, and thank God they were there waiting when I escaped. I lost all my landmarkian friends, I cut all the bridges with them. But then, I met them when they were already landmarkians, so I guess I acually never knew them at all, I never really 'lost' anyone, they were already werner erhard wannabe. I have no idea how hard it is to have a loved one lost to a cult, since i was the one lost to a cult. And it is absolutely true that in landmarkia no one has a friend. An no one is a friend. I saw people betraying each other for the sake of the leader's approval or, more often, for their statistics. I saw people who didn't want to share being exposed to public ridicule by their very buddies. Or hundreds of similar little things like that. It is hell inside. The worst was when there are guest. You have to put on your best smile and look enthusiast. I was scared to be caught not smiling to a guest by a leader. If a leader thinks you're responsible for a 'no' from a guest, say your prayers.
Anyway, as I said when I got out I had my friends waiting and supporting me. Also, their doubts about landmark was the only thing my real, non brainwashed self could hang up to in order not to drawn into landmark. I can't speak about any case but mine, of course. So where is the healthy boundary? I don't know. But I can tell you this: landmarkians, all of them, are secretly desperate to be loved without the technology involved. Deep, deep, deep, deep, deep inside everyone wants a way out. If anyone has not completely lost their loved ones to this cult, my personal suggestion is to remind them of pre-cult, non-cult-related experiences and time. When they start to miss even one single thing of their pre-landmark life, well, that's a bigger step on the way out that you could imagine. It takes a lot of patience and courage to stand by a loved one after their indoctrination. I can't say when enough is enough, but one should try as hard as they can.

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maurice

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ON2 LF
I struggle with the thought that, in landmarkia, no one has a true friend. If a person snaps out of the lekkie trance, they've got no one left to be there for them. If I walk or run, my friend is left in the same boat. Where is the healthy boundary?

That's true. If I hadn't kept my normal friends, If they didn't keep in touch with me even when - especially when - I started to lose them for a full-time landmarkia life, I don't know If I'd ever got free. I started to want out when I started to miss my old friends and my old life, and thank God they were there waiting when I escaped. I lost all my landmarkian friends, I cut all the bridges with them. But then, I met them when they were already landmarkians, so I guess I acually never knew them at all, I never really 'lost' anyone, they were already werner erhard wannabe. I have no idea how hard it is to have a loved one lost to a cult, since i was the one lost to a cult. And it is absolutely true that in landmarkia no one has a friend. An no one is a friend. I saw people betraying each other for the sake of the leader's approval or, more often, for their statistics. I saw people who didn't want to share being exposed to public ridicule by their very buddies. Or hundreds of similar little things like that. It is hell inside. The worst was when there are guest. You have to put on your best smile and look enthusiast. I was scared to be caught not smiling to a guest by a leader. If a leader thinks you're responsible for a 'no' from a guest, say your prayers.
Anyway, as I said when I got out I had my friends waiting and supporting me. Also, their doubts about landmark was the only thing my real, non brainwashed self could hang up to in order not to drawn into landmark. I can't speak about any case but mine, of course. So where is the healthy boundary? I don't know. But I can tell you this: landmarkians, all of them, are secretly desperate to be loved without the technology involved. Deep, deep, deep, deep, deep inside everyone wants a way out. If anyone has not completely lost their loved ones to this cult, my personal suggestion is to remind them of pre-cult, non-cult-related experiences and time. When they start to miss even one single thing of their pre-landmark life, well, that's a bigger step on the way out that you could imagine. It takes a lot of patience and courage to stand by a loved one after their indoctrination. I can't say when enough is enough, but one should try as hard as they can.

You all have got to learn the tough love method or you wind the risk on enabling them or getting sucked into it yourself. They've got to learn on their own.

The WORST thing you can do is enable someone, because you're letting them know their behavior is acceptable. And you don't have to do that-- they've already paid a company to let them know that everything they do is OK. You'll just end up sounding like someone who is "negative," "unsupportive," or someone who "doesn't get it." And the latter two might wind you up doing the Forum "to understand" them.

Thanks but no thanks, ya know? You _already_ understood them, they just, for whatever reason, bought into it. You may want to consider why you'd invest time in anyone who becomes a cult apologist so quick.

My view is, either you're part of the problem (enabling) or part of the solution (tough love and awareness).