If anyone here were to provide specific info on the exact 'levers' and other 'buttons' used by problematic LGATs to manipulate people, that information might:

1) be potentially useful in warning some vulnerable people away from LGAT recruitment. *However, that info probably become obsolete quite soon. The problematic LGATs would simply create a new set of covert techniques--like new computer upgrades that render existing programs obsolete.

2)** Such information could be used, all too easily by unscrupulous individuals to manipulate people to their own advantage. Back in college, there were one or two guys who took the class on behavioral psychology and used the material to try to con women. I am sorry to report that they were a lot more successful than they deserved to be.

The safest thing is to

1) Refer people to the archive of information on this site that exists in the 'Mind Control' section.

2) Advise them to research the data on whatever LGAT is most worrisome/intrusive to them

That way, you'll still have more than enough info to make an informed decision.

Corboy,

I kind of sense that your post is directed at least in part towards me, because I did in fact post to several threads requesting info on the specific "hooks" used to bind people's self image to "Landmark" (that is just so funny to me that it's used like a noun in that way. "Landmark this, Landmark that, you know, I'm doing Landmark, and my friends at Landmark, and you know in Landmark we believe this, and I'm going to Landmark". I think if products did kind of a "disappearing your Landmark experience" the word "Landmark" would quickly resolve into sheer jibberish.)

:)

Ok, well, just fyi, as I did mention, I do have a couple of friends into Landmark somewhat. They were, at least initially, rather shockingly into it, but after spending some time talking to them, and some other friends getting involved, they have made some good progress. However, they haven't completely shunned it, so, it does kind of bother me that either of them could possibly be manipulated further and possibly brainwashed into it. That is why I was seeking info on specific hooks... to "unhook" them.
Because in a sense, it is like an Amway kind of deal, or anything that people get all fanatical about... but as I think I mentioned, I myself have found myself getting temporarily fascinated with it just researching on the internet at times... most notably from the LEC site, and from a site with some Q&A with some trainer or coach, which painted a very positive, robust picture of the curriculum, and seemed to have been framed in this NLP kind of dialogue, the point being that something in the cadence of the phrasing seems to bring across the "possibility" that these trainers are really some kind of super free powerful people, and that this training could "blow open" the windows of your life and charge you up with energy. Which is a tempting thought... however, if you have the capacity to really read the expositions of LGAT methodology [Singer, Lieberman et al] then you can clearly see how a group like Landmark works, and why they are a very dangerous group... that they have no scruples... that they don't "stand for" integrity and caring about people. Anyone who doubts that should dare to read the excellent, scholarly papers available on culteducation.com.

So yeah, I guess maybe I can see that people shouldn't post any of the "hooks" used to bind people's self image into Landmark... although, I kind of thought it would help *some* people out there, and maybe even chip away at the landmark mind control system itself, if more were known about Landmark mind control techniques.

For anyone interested in helping their friends either out of Landmark, or in just making them stronger and more immune to Landmark, here is a partial list of tips. (I do feel like I have a lot to contribute to the group, and I do appreciate the work put into this site.)

1. Remember that your friend in Landmark is still cognizant of life around him or her. They are not totally zombied out. If they have just done a program, they are just in more of an emotional "touchy feely" high kind of state that they don't want to come down from. The thing about pushing Landmark has been thrown in and they want to focus on that, because it makes them feel better and more connected, both to the group, and to you, their friends and loved ones. They FEEL that if you would just join too, be transformed into the group, then your relationship would be wonderfully open, free, close, libidinally freer, etc. They are in more of an unconscious, emotionally driven state then you have ever seen them in before, maybe than they've ever been in their entire life. They are amazed, feel good, and any awareness of having been manipulated or brainwashed is something like an unpleasant itch somewhere in the back of their mind that they don't want to deal with.

2. Learn the lingo. Talk to them in their new language.

3. Get them to gradually open up and explain in their own words what the Landmark experience was like. Engage their critical thinking by getting them to talk and think about things. Ask questions, raise doubts here and there, but don't argue or get confrontational. Once he tells you in his own words something that was taught or experienced there, if you point out a contradiction they will need to at least consider it.

4. Find ways to make them think/remember good things about their lives before Landmark. Bring home the idea, truthfully, about what a wonderful, rich life they've lived, and how much value their life, and their self, their soul, has always had. This will build in them the potential for self regeneration. The *core* of Landmark's training has to do with telling people that their lives don't work, that they've been jerks, phonies, a**holes all their lives, that everything bad was their fault, etc. and that they NEED to change/transform. Bring back the knowledge to them of how great their life has been, and how wonderful they are as individuals.

5. Stress the reality of the real world. Landmark teaches that the objective world doesn't actually exist, that everything is "created" by your mind. Things that irrefutably demonstrate the existence of an objective real world will cause an immediate conflict of belief for them, even if it is subtle.

6. Encourage them to think about "self". The good things, the strong things about themselves. You will find that the word "self" has been re-defined for them to mean "new, transformed self". Don't let this scare you. But try to help them find their footing somewhat, by talking about individuality, freedom, etc.

7. Talk with them about group psychology, and the effects that groups have on people. This may at least give them an awareness somewhat of what they are involved in. 90% of the strength of Landmark's training is created by the reciprocal, contagious transmission that occurs in the group environment.
In Landmark, a group is quickly created, brought under control,
persuaded, aroused with strong emotion, leadership and verbal images, and then taken on a "roller coaster" of self questioning lows of self doubt and absolute highs of "possibility".

8. Undermine faith in the leaders or trainers. The glue that holds this all together is every member's faith that the trainers care about all of them in the group equally, and essentially "love" them all, and want only each of them to make "extraordinary" progress. Without this core belief, they become just a crowd of people who wasted $400 bucks, not a dynamic group focused on transformation.


Ok, well, I could write more here... because I find this very interesting... I was somewhat exposed/involved with a Christian cult-like group a while back... the amazing thing to me is how easy it is to get into something like this. It can feel good (or at least better) at times to shed individuality, and you CAN be tempted. I honestly don't think there are any easy answers...

Anways, thanks again, Corboy, and I didn't mean to be out of line in the forum.



:cool:

GC,

Interesting... I find it fascinating that you were so deeply involved as to actually be on staff. I agree with you, and I
have read some of your posts, which were very informative
and interesting.

Regarding what you said... could you elaborate and/or give some examples on:

1. what to watch out for
2. things to help pull friends out of LEC

I am very interested in this subject, as my boyfriend is actually somewhat involved still, and I want to make sure that I can help him in any way that I can. The fact that you have these type of inside credentials is very compelling to me, both in understanding LEC in an objective way and as a possible source of ways that I can directly help my friend.

For instance, if he says he has perspective on the group etc etc., but still wants to go to some meetings or whatever in the future, then what stage of the process am I at with him? It almost seems like he could just walk away... but at the same time it does seem like he is hooked on some level, like it just "goes without saying" that LEC is something good that he enjoys. I'm not sure if the scenario I'm describing is making complete sense... but what might you suggest to kind of nudge him a bit further away and/or inspire a kind of aversion to LEC that would cause him to distance himself?


Any assistance on this subject will be greatly and sincerely appreciated.

thanks!