thought that it might be interesting/fun to get together
and sit in on a LEC intr- they meet nightly around madsion square garden
thought it might be fun to sit there and instead of being one of their plants asking the pro LEC questions I could be there as a plant asking questions that tey might not be ready for- wonder if anyone has ever ask them just
what their credentials were ?
Orif anyone can think of anything that might be appropriate for me to ask one of them ???????
I d love to get a few others to come along
Anyone game ?

Liz

I'm in the NYC area.

If you have not been to a Forum intro evening before then I would strongly advise against going to try and beat them at their own game.

It's a nice idea but I wouldn't do it. Just my opinion.
:)

A few weeks ago, someone who boasted of having "a very high IQ" made a similar plan, but numerous people who know about LEC strongly discouraged it. Look for the thread yourself, they made good reasons.

Certainly there are better ways to spend $375 in the Big Apple.

To anyone interested in taking an active stand on cults and cult activity; go rent "The Boondock Saints".

;) :p :D :cool:

I would NEVER give a LGAT one penny
I hear they have a few free nights during the week

Youcan get abused for free before you need to pay for the abuse-

The free intro nights are a very, very watered down version of portions of the Forum. It's almost like being at an Oprah show. Someone is chosen from the audience who wants to get a handle on a dilemma she's having at work - in my intro night, it was a lady who worked with someone who had a PhD. She deferred to him all the time because he had a PhD and she had not yet completed her BA. Basically, the audience members were all muttering under her breath that she was deferring to him because she felt shame about her education. Canned pop psych answer that anyone could see coming. But this is the example the intro night leader gave as what the Forum would be like. There was little use of jargon, lots of audience participation, a rather evasive reply to questions about est, and a very skillful pressure sales pitch to sign up for the Forum, with smiling faces all saying that if you're not satisfied, you can get a refund - nothing to lose. Quite different from the Forum, and probably easier to get sucked in to.

I've been on this forum for about a month. I have a couple friends into Landmark, to various degrees. They seem like they have some perspective on it... although I was a first *shocked* at the way the conversion or whatever occurred and the way they became so fanatical for a week or two. Anyways, I've found researching this subject to be very informative in a lot of ways.

I was especially hopeful that some ex-trainers/coaches/leaders/members might be able to share with me what some of the primary "hooks" are into the landmark system. For instance, when I posted before "Hope" shared that there was the moment in the forum right before the "life is meaningless" meditation or revelation or whatever, that the trainer said "can you feel the love?" and everybody felt warmth or something. I actually tested this out and it is true. You can say "can you feel the love?" to a landmark person and they will kind of trip and get all silent :) pretty cool experiment for anybody.
Of course since we are machines, shouldn't be surprise, blah blah blah.

Ok, anyway, what I'd like to know are, what are some of the primary hooks, hypnotic or otherwise, that bind someones self image into "Landmark" and into the group? I honestly feel that knowledge of this can help to gently guide friends' awareness to more of an objective perspective. Any insight/info into this would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!

Play along.

Imagine you get say a dozen people to go with you to an invitational night. If even just a couple of people out the dozen actually get sucked in you've done landmark a favor.

I think its safe to say, having read several posts by retired forum leaders, that the chances of a person walking away from an LGAt experience 100% mentally intact arent that good. Further I believe it is safe to assert that the chances are really good that if you were to bring a dozen people to an introductory meeting some of them would get sucked in.

From what I can gather and break down in simple terms its like being a cat and trying to resist the urge to play. The most dangerous aspect of playing around with people who are basically in the business of manipulating all the key human responses is that they probably know every step, argument, defense and instinct you have better than you and will be able to anticipate and neutralize any kind of resistance you may put up.

Finally I recall reading more than once about how people are planted in introductory meetings to pose as newcomers to the group. Talk about dirty tricks.... To me that means the chances of you making an argument for an audience that isnt already biased arent very good either.

Seriously though, rent and watch "The Boondock Saints". Nuff said.

Templar,

Ok, all this talk about the vast, incredible, inscrutable ways they have for brainwashing you I think is somewhat overblown. True, I think we do have that side that wants to play along, in spite of our "resistance". But, if you're there, doing it, participating, it's not like "resistance is futile" it's more like "you're participating".

Secondly, yes, I've surfed the LEC website, and I do kind of find myself buying into it for a few hours after reading it. "Seeing the possibilities". *heh heh* It is a GREAT routine they have, simply ingenious... and I'm sure they have great marketers and presenters, plus they take full advantage of the three day marathon session, plus they use (literally) every brainwashing/manipulation trick out there. Result: a pretty good rate of at least temporary conversion. Do they help anybody? I don't know... some people apparently get a "high" off it... a boost... of course, I do see the dangers, the demeaning nature of it, the pull into the organization...

but this whole thing about "don't go near them, they'll suck you in" is kind of like the "Kung Fu death touch" myth, such as, "I just touched you, now you will drop dead in 2 weeks". Psyches you out, basically. I mean, if those guys were THAT good, they could be selling stock, or diamonds, or art, or whatever, and making 2 million a WEEK, instead of 500K a year. But, put all the factors together, along with vulnerable people, and they do get a pretty good conversion rate, largely because the trainers themselves are
"true believers" also.

Tricky my friend, welcome to the board.

Does anyone still have a bad taste in thier mouths from our Gorean friends? Honestly, Im beginning to sense a set-up here...

In your past posts Tricky you may have hit the nail on the head. These are your words:

"From what I've read, I am actually starting to be somewhat of the opinion that the people in Landmark want to be hypnotized and manipulated, they want to lose themselves"

Let me ask you a question bearing those words in mind. If those people, depite getting exactly what they want, a little hypnotic 'fix', are harming themselves and others in the process (refer to any story of a broken home as a result of LGAT involvement) does that then make the nature of the LGAT 'beast' benevolent or malevolent?

Its the addiction argument without the drugs.

My reason for asking you this Tricky is that, and its more likely my fault in misinterpreting your position on the matter than anything else (my reading comprehension is limited by a short attention span) is that I get a 'wolf in sheeps clothing' type of feeling after I browsed all 6 of your posts. Again I appologize if it seems Ive leaped to a conclusion but, it seems to me that in the course of six posts you went from being a curious friend of someone involved with Landmark to Landmarks Devils Advocate.

Any genuine reason for the 'shift' or am I just WAY too paranoid?

Further at what point in my original post, clearly directed to Liz in NYC, did you decide " Ok, all this talk about the vast, incredible, inscrutable ways they have for brainwashing you I think is somewhat overblown" needed to be directed to me? For that matter why did you even bother addressing me in your post. I was offering advice to Liz who asked for our thoughts. You seem to want to sieze a moment here and use me as your example, not going to happen.

I have to admit I was almost offended by the fact that you even felt at liberty to addresed me in such a manner in Liz's thread, but it then occured to me that such was likely your intention to begin with.

If youre actually going to answer directly my 2 simple questions then do so in another thread, otherwise Id appreciate it if our discussion ended here. I wont be involved in the hijacking of another topic. We dont need another "Gorean Incident" and this is Liz's thread.

U dig?:mad: