No, i'm not scared of any reprocussions on myself.. bring it on. I just dont want the parties that have shared those experiences to be given any grief because they did share some of the things that went on.
Ok, I just wanted it to be clear to anyone else that nobody at HAI threatened you with anything. That does happen in other groups, and it would have been easy for what you said to be misinterpreted that way.
There's something that can be said about saving things like that for one person.. to make them special, unique, and only for one person. Tell me, what do you save for your wife, now that you've shared these things with everyone else? A spot on your tax return?
Well that's a valid point. You attach more importance to the physical than we do. That's fine, you should follow your own path.
My wife is someone that I have a lot of history with, have had children with, and grandchildren (somehow I should feel old, shouldn't I?).
Finding someone to hold you during an orgasm isn't that hard.
Finding someone to hold you when you're puking your guts out is more difficult.
What I have for her, is a deep commitment to keep our relationship alive and growing, which I think is FAR more important than nudity or sex.
It makes you a nudist, nothing more.
I don't know that I would go that far, though I wouldn't rule it out.
I just think that it's brought me out of some unfounded fears that have been bothering me for 30 years.
See above. Where do you draw the line, how do you make your wife feel special about how you feel about her? Physical level notwithstanding (your body being human, male, and prone to outside influence), how do you raise one relationship over another, if you're constantly falling in love with one person or another? Can you honestly say there's something you do for/to her that you wouldnt do for someone else?
I guess we don't define it that way, not in a physical sense.
But let me ask you this: Why do you need to raise one relationship over another? We've made commitments to each other to stay with this relationship, and to not deliberately do anything that would diminish it.
HAI seems to suggest that its okay to do for many what you should save for one - that's one of the big problems that I have.
You say that like it's a universal law, and that's obviously not the case.
If you feel that way, then by all means go with it, but not everyone feels that way.
More importantly IMHO, is that you keep to the agreements that you make. IF you made such an agreement, then you should keep to it. Agreements can be modified, but only with mutual consent.
When lori and I were married, we did the conventional vows, and by that contract, neither of us can leave the marriage except by death, FOR ANY REASON. Now obviously that's silly, but some people believe that's how it should be, and if that's their choice, then who am I to argue with it.
We are working on new vows now, and whatever they end up being, an unconditional ownership clause will not be part of the package.
I'm no christian, but I do think that Jesus was a good teacher. It's his later followers that I take exception to.
The idea that people should stop building up walls around themselves, and extend love to others is one that I completely agree with. Remember, love does not equal sex. Sometimes they come together, sometimes apart. Same with intimacy. All three together is wonderful.
I have to apoligize, i didnt intend this to turn into a debate about what's morally right or wrong. Heavens knows i've done more than a few things that many people would consider questionable, if not outright wrong. Someone asked for information, and I simply put down my impressions and feelings during the one thing that i've experienced, as well as the things that i've heard from my special someone.
Hey don't apologise, I'm enjoying the debate, and hopefully it will show the nature of HAI properly, so that people can make an informed decision about wether this is something they'd like to do, or not.
And I find value in your points as a "sanity check".
One of these days, I hope to meet you IRL.
Yes, i went in looking for problems.. and some of the things that i found i would consider problems - but many things were very good. Encouraging those to ask permission for hugs, touting being "at choice" to do one thing or another, etc.
I don't blame you, I was skeptical myself, but as you know we were in deep trouble and I was willing to take a chance. Otherwise I never would have signed up for it, the secrecy and expense were big red flags for me.
I'm glad I was wrong, and I consdider it to be probably the best money I've ever spent.
The biggest question that I had for Felicia, and I really should have asked it at the intro, but I was more interested in getting something to eat than to try and extend the intro even further by debating it:
If all of these things are so good... why can't they be done with clothes on? There's no valid reason that I can think of to have naked people in what essentially amounts to a group-therapy weekend.
Well, you certainly CAN do the workshops fully clothed.
Part of it I'm sure, is to get you thinking outside the box.
Another valuable part of it is to get past the body issues that keep so many of us hiding, or feeling that nobody would want to know us because of how we look. That certainly was an issue for me, and I'm glad that I'm past it now.
We also take certain messages from clothing, and jewelery.
They specifically ask that you eliminate or minimize jewelery as well, for that reason.
I'm always being pressured to wear a suit, which is supposed to make me look more professional, and I'm sure it would, but it wouldn't make me more comfortable, or make the quality of my work any better. It's an artificial front, and something to hide behind.
Takes a certain amount of guts to show up at a board meeting at Visa in a tee shirt and jeans :)
Mistakes? I didnt see any mistakes at my intro.. who made mistakes?
Felicia for one, if she stepped over the line and it sounds like she did.
In fairness you as well, if you felt pressured you should have called her on it at the time. Allowing transgressions like that to pass unchallenged are a slippery slope to disaster, and the sort of environment that neither of us wants to be involved in.
You shouldn't have been made to feel singled out or pressured, even if your choices were unusual. I wasn't there unfortunately, so I can't give an opinion, but I'd be very surprised if she intended it the way you took it. Still if you felt pressured, then you were. She deserved that feedback so that she could correct her actions. Being a facilitator, that shouldn't happen, but she is human, and rather enthusiastic as I'm sure you noticed.
Again, apologies, these posts arent intended to be an attack on you or HAI, just a description of my impressions of the organization as a whole based on my interaction and observations. I'm by no means an authority on psychotherapy techniques, hypnosis, HAI, or morality. I'm just a man.
And by the reports of your fan club, an exceptional one at that :)