DCEsquire... of COURSE it was a rewarding experience for you. Level 1 usually is. That's how they suck you in. Then Level 2 comes along and you are asked to be naked and allow the women to inspect your penis as you lie there. The women are asked to insert a speculum (like in a doctor's office) and allow the men to inspect THEM. You are asked to kiss the genitalia of a partner of the other gender, and you are asked to kiss the genitalia of a partner of the SAME gender. And that is NOT the worst of it by any means.

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DCEsquire
What a fascinating discussion. I was curious about HAI and found these threads. I did Level 1 and I must admit that I was quite uncomfortable with a number of the exercises - but that largely had to do with my fear of the unknown and the possibility of being naked with strangers. I actually was clothed for much of the workshop as were others. That said, pushing through the fear was quite helpful. The group was seemingly "normal" although there were some people that were (like most of us from time to time) working through either personal or relationship issues. The facilitators were really just wonderful though. I would admit that HAI is not for everyone but I don't think that's HAI's fault or a knock on the program. If you were uncomfortable, you can just walk out the door. No biggie. I liked many of the people I met, still correspond with one or two of them. I thought the program was quite genuine and I have no doubt that it had a positive impact on a number of people. It's an experience that I will remember - perhaps in part because it was unique. No pressure to advance to another level, no weird crazy sex orgies - sorry folks. I'm pretty conventional but open to new things and development. I really enjoyed it and might explore another class when I have the time. Again, I understand others may have had different experiences and I think situations might be different depending upon different variables (participants, facilitators, location). I did my workshop at Harbin which is beautiful.

I just wanted to chime in because I think the workshop I attended was a rewarding personal experience for me.

It was a stretch at some points - but that's one of the reasons I wanted to do a workshop. To grow and to learn and to meet other similar minded people.

DCEsquire:

As I mentioned in my post on another threat about HAI, I also found the first couple of workshops to be rewarding, and they allowed me to push through some barriers. In retrospect, I think I would have been better off in a more structured therapy program. Having done in excess of ten of the workshops, I now consider it to be a slow hypnotic manipulation towards group sex and it is not necessary healthy for people in committed relationships where one person is not interested in the group sex aspects. If anything, HAI is a lonely hearts club of single people, definitely not meant for married couples (see my other thread). One of the other commenters pointed out, accurately, that most of the facilitators, interns, and assistants are not in committed relationships and tend toward the poly lifestyle, which greatly influences their behavior toward the participants....always looking for the next sex partner!

I also agree strongly with the moderator that the professional training of those who run the program (facilitators, interns, assistants) is very lacking. Although they present themselves as kind, loving, understanding, supportive, and knowledgeable, I also believe that their understanding of the human psyche is amateurish...its more like your favorite aunt and uncle who are willing to hug you when you are in great pain and tell you that everything will be all right...all you have to do is go along with the program. It takes no professional training whatsoever to become an intern or assistant, yet these people are free workhorses (and the financial backbone) of the organization. These are the people who are looked up to as quaisi-facilitators. I strongly believe that there should be minimum professional standards for the extended leadership of workshops like these, and a screening process for participants.

In the early 70's, I took the EST training because it was the "in" thing to do in San Francisco. I was also a paid staff member for about a year. A couple of years later, I decided to take the workshop again and walked out half-way through the first weekend because it was so phony and so abusive. What made it easy for me to leave was that I could walk home....I was not in a remote location like HAI; I had no belongings to pack up; I did not have to drive 3-4 hours; I did not have to clear it with someone...I simply chose to respect myself enough. I finally decided to leave HAI when I saw my husband become so engrossed in the free and easy sex aspect that he was no longer interested in our marriage. In my mind, there is a great deal about HAI that is similar to EST, except that it is done naked and it is more hypnotic.

Thanks for everyone's comments. I did HAI somewhat randomly. I have never done any workshops outside of Esalen which was quite professional and obviously different. I know the whole story about EST and have a friend that took some courses with Landmark which he wanted me to try - but I resisted because it seemed like a high pressure sales environment.

What's interesting about my HAI workshop is that there were actually a number of couples there. One couple apparently had been going through a tough time and I think it helped them. They made a point of doing all of the exercises together as "buddies", which I think would be important. I would also agree that if you are going to do this as a couple it would be helpful to establish some groundrules before going.

I did get the sense there were a few guys there that were single and interested in "connecting" with someone (I think both gay and hetero). That didn't really bother me so much and no one did anything inappropriate that I could tell.

I think you raise some good points about the professional qualifications of the facilitators. It's actually something that caused me to do some research about HAI afterwards (and what lead me to this discussion board). Here is the current list - a few people have a PHD, but some folks info isn't listed [www.hai.org] That said - it's not like they hid or misrepresented the credentials and it is disclosed. SFB - I do think there were some people there that could have benefited from therapy too. Some of them probably were.

As for the free labor - the seemed to enjoy the "community". Honestly they were about 15-20 years my Senior so I didn't get any weird vibes from them and really had no significant interaction with them other than in small group exercises and here and there.

DayDreamer - Obviously I've never been to a level 2 workshop like you - but kissing strangers genitals is something I would absolutely opt out of. The fact that they would suggest this seems very much at odds with the safe sex information they tried to educate everyone about (not because we were doing it with each other - but just for your own education). I am not sure how they can teach you about safe sex in Level 1 and then tell you to kiss someone's penis in Level 2. As far as checking out someones "bits" (sans speculum please!) I find that less troublesome although I'm not sure what that has to do with the Level 2 topic of "Loving Yourself". Doesn't seem to really fit with the context of the workshop does it?

Again, I think you all raise some good points that are worth being aware of before someone goes in to one of these sessions. That said, I really didn't get the sense of this being a "cult" in any way shape or form. If it is, they can't be making much money given they only charge 600 bucks and have to pay for food and lodging too! I'm new to it, and am pretty intelligent and an independent thinker so maybe I just didn't fall prey. I also don't have any interest in poly-anything either.

These are interesting considerations. I can't say I've read all of the research and I might take issue with some of the criteria but for the sake of discussion let me try to assess how HAI either satisfies or does not satisfy these criteria.


1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.

>> Personally, I don't understand this factor. Is baseball a cult, because they let anyone that paid 20 bucks in for a seat? HAI charges a reasonable (not excessive) fee for food, lodging and the workshop. What would be adequat selection criteria?

2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.

>>>HAI discloses the credentials of all of their facilitators. They aren't hiding anything. Here is the current list.

[www.hai.org] Since they do not represent the workshop as a substitute for seeing a licensed therapist or mental health professional, I am not sure why they need to have those credentials. I agree it might be helpful, but individual participants have the ability to ask who will be facilitating a work shop and make those choices for themselves.

3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.

>>>Well, I think this sounds either nice or hoaky but here it is from their site.

"The Human Awareness Institute (HAI) empowers individuals to be potent, loving, contributing human beings. HAI promotes personal growth and social evolution by replacing ignorance and fear with awareness and love. HAI aims to create a world where people live together in dignity, respect, understanding, trust, kindness, compassion, honesty and love. The Human Awareness Institute is committed to "Creating a World Where Everyone Wins." "


4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.

>>>Not that I experienced but maybe others would disagree.

5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.

>>>Again, I didn't see any of this but obviously people have different views about what's inappropriate. Again, I've only done 1 level.

6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.

>>> The do invite participants to stretch and I some exercises were more difficult for me. They actually specifically told people they had a choice to stay clothed or not and several of us did. No pressure. No big deal.

7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.

>>> The whole workshop was about valuing personal differences and understanding how we are - underneath -- all quite similar. I don't see this as having been satisfied.

8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.

>> Someone may need to explain this, but other than permitting or inviting people to be comfortable in their nudity, they weren't encouraging anyone to do anything impuslive. Heck, the told everyone not to drink or do illicit drugs (or have any sex) during the 2 days of the workshop.

9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.

>>> It's a workshop, so you are doing "exercises". They often invited the participants to close their eyes, take deep breaths and think about how the exercise felt, what it ment to us, to think if we were uncomfortable or comfortable. This was quite helpful. Critera 9 wasn't satisfied in my experience.

10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.

>>> This seems open to conjecture but not in my limited experience.

11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.

>>> There were both opportunities for individual and group sharing. Again, maybe I am misunderstanding but I don't think this was satisfied.

12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.

>>> Eh? No one was offered a cure for anything!

13. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions


>>> I would need a different degree to understand this question and reply to it, but I'm open to someone explaining it further.

DCEsquire:

You are certainly spending a lot of time defending HAI for someone who supposedly just "did HAI somewhat randomly."

Your continuing defense of this group here seems to indicate you feel invested enough to take time defending them.

The issue of education and credentials directly and specifically applicable to conducting what is essentially a form of group therapy and counseling was the point raised, not if HAI people had one degree or another.

That is, on what basis can they be held professionally accountable (i.e. licensing board) for the HAI programs they run like a clinical psychologist, marriage and family therapist or psychiatrist?

They are not specifically licensed as mental health professionals to conduct therapy, yet they are essentially running group therapy programs, which potentially affect people psychologically and emotionally.

The 13 liabilities flow from this, i.e. they don't have the specific credentials to do these sessions safely and therefore HAI is potentially unsafe.

Your answers above are not on topic and/or evasive, they don't really address the 13 liabilities objectively, but rather just attempt to obfuscate and/or offer your subjective experience as an apology.

For example your answers to 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 12 were not even responsive to the points and off topic.

And your answers to 4, 5 and 10, were subjective, only based upon your feelings and experience.

Only on point 13 did you seem express some understanding, i.e. that you "would need a different degree to understand."

That is exactly the point of the 13 liabilities, the HAI facilitators would need to have the correct education, degree and credentials as board certified counseling and/or mental health professionals, to recognize and be able to avoid the liabilities cited.

And you have offered no objective facts to demonstrate otherwise, i.e. that they specifically have such credentials and can be held accountable through a licensing board.

Instead you have gone off topic, ignored the points and/or offered your experience, which you apparently believe somehow exonerates HAI.

You may wish to go on and on defending HAI, but either stayon topic, address points specifically with facts, or move on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2008 08:23PM by rrmoderator.

Just a couple of two-cents worth....

I absolutely agree that the HAI workshops are conducted like group therapy sessions and that the facilitators and others in leadership positions should have more instructive training and licensing. I have experienced interns who acted the part of a therapist but who were also seeking outside sexual involvement. I suggest that sexual involvement between facilitators/interns/assistants and the participants should be strictly forbidden at all times and under all circumstances to bring it in line with professional therapeutical standards. I'm surprised that there are no state rules, either in California, Michigan, or Massachusetts.

I also believe that the mental health and history of the participants needs to be more fully screened and addressed. I don't believe that you can properly address a room full of 75-100 people with widely varying emotional backgrounds, sexual abuse history, and assorted proclivities towards group sex activities.

On another point, the workshops become progressively pointed at sexual interacting, to the point where intercourse as part of an exercise in front of everyone is common, and the intercourse can be between people who hardly/barely/don't know each other. Once you jump into the puddle, so to speak, it becomes easier and easier to convince you that it is OK.

Thanks for this. I didn't know about the sexual interaction. That's very helpful and the sort of information I was curious (and concerned) about. I don't get it though - how do they get people to do that with strangers? Why would anyone want to do that - or are you suggesting that people self-select and the only people left at higher levels are the people that just want to have random hookups.

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SFBMoore
Just a couple of two-cents worth....

snip

On another point, the workshops become progressively pointed at sexual interacting, to the point where intercourse as part of an exercise in front of everyone is common, and the intercourse can be between people who hardly/barely/don't know each other. Once you jump into the puddle, so to speak, it becomes easier and easier to convince you that it is OK.

Sexual intercourse between stangers is available as early as the last 'free form' or 'unstructured' exercise on level 4. This is 'freestyle' intimate kissing and stroking in a small group of 4 in the 'Room of Love.' The small groups of 4 were scattered around the Room. In preparation there is an instruction that "barriers are available if you want them, just ask." That means condoms. On my level 4 only one small group approached that need, but didn't quite get there. Erections were in evidence however. The big group 'share' afterwards lead to a few guys stating that they wished that they could have joined in and that "they wanted some of that."

With regards to 'sex,' which most folk would understand to be penetrative sex to ejaculation, HAI muddies the waters by raising doubts as to what the term 'sex' actually means. In many participants this starts to cause some confusion. I think it was on level 2 that the facilitators kept on about "what people mean by the word 'sex'". Obviously this is in preparation for introducing intimate activities of all kinds, in large groups, small groups and in couples, all under the banner 'sex.' All of the time the 'rules' for safer sex, that is actual intercourse, are displayed on the wall.

With regards to the facilitators, all Americans by-the-way, being properly trained and accredited, some are hypnotherapists. This appears to be ideal training for leading LGAT type Gestault activities and coercing everyone to participate in what is presented as opportunities to 'go with the flow,' 'go outside your comfort zone in the safety of the 'Room of Love,' 'lower your boundaries,' 'take risks,' 'become more vulnerable,' etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2008 01:49PM by SeekingTruth.

When you really look at it, "sex" is ill defined everywhere in society....from Bill Clinton's "I didn't have sex with that woman" to all of the sexual inuendo in advertising/TV/magazines, etc. HAI simply follows through with this ill-defined definition.

Wanted to put in a kind word for hypnotism when used properly. Preface....I think that HAI does not use it properly and creates a hypnotized group mentality, much like Jim Jones did in Guyana in the late 70's. (He was run out of San Francisco for this, much like Werner Earhart had to leave the country and find a place where he could not be extradited.) In these large human potential group settings, however, it has the feeling of the old vaudeville carney/elixir salesman with a more gentle voice.

Hypnotism can be used successfully to overcome emotional barriers and quit bad habits. I used it, twice, to overcome test anxiety and stay focused, and it was very successful....

That's easy to answer. In Level 1, they get you more comfortable with the facilitators and with the buzzwords, and get you started with altering your boundaries. Each workshop builds on the last one. They get you comfortable at one point, then push the boundaries again... so it seems almost normal. Then they build on THAT, to make it feel normal. And it keeps on going for as long as the participants continue to ignore the little voice in their head saying "this is WRONG." I'm sure they expect to lose a few people along the way, but enough people go along with it to keep things happening.

And, of course, some people WANT random hookups and others convince themselves that the people in the "Room of Love" actually DO love them. It's the only way they can rationalize doing the things they are doing.

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DCEsquire
Thanks for this. I didn't know about the sexual interaction. That's very helpful and the sort of information I was curious (and concerned) about. I don't get it though - how do they get people to do that with strangers? Why would anyone want to do that - or are you suggesting that people self-select and the only people left at higher levels are the people that just want to have random hookups.