human awareness institute
Posted by:
kath
()
Date: October 24, 2006 06:05AM
Quote
stevepremo
This is unrelated to the discussion, but I wonder... am I the only person in this discussion who gives his real name and stands by his statements, rather than hiding behind anonymity?
Hi Steve. No, quite a few of the members from groups mentioned join under their real names.
Now I am not implying that HAI do this, but by exposing the group that I 'exposed' on this messageboard I recieved threats- legal, perhaps physical, and extreme pressure and stress though abusive emails applying pressure to me, they also emailed my partner, they made hastling phone calls to my friends all because I mistakenly joined up under my normal nickname.
Even with a perhaps gentler group like HAI people may face arguments, oestracism, abuse for speaking out.
This is why it's best for people who are sharing their negative experiences not to give their name. I wish I hadn't.
Hope this helps you understand,
Love
Kath
human awareness institute
Posted by:
siofra
()
Date: October 24, 2006 10:59AM
Ghost-
I have always been honest. I have not always been willing to comment on things you might have wished me to. I have said what I could without breaking agreements I made and I have repeatedly referred to the fact that my agreements prevent me from discussing some things.
As for the variety of HAI management approaches you commented on, I don’t know why HAI has chosen the balances it has. Again, I am not a spokesperson for the organization or in the loop on these decisions. On the publicity info, I will say that other sexuality workshops I have attended share about the same level of detail.
As for why I have commented on the things I have (and not on others), I have written on the things I wanted to and things where I felt I could provide some useful information. If you want to take your feedback directly to HAI and get an official response on all your complaints, I will be glad to help you do that. It seems as if you want to talk with a decision maker or someone with a lot more answers to “why” than I have.
Siofra
I have always been honest. I have not always been willing to comment on things you might have wished me to. I have said what I could without breaking agreements I made and I have repeatedly referred to the fact that my agreements prevent me from discussing some things.
As for the variety of HAI management approaches you commented on, I don’t know why HAI has chosen the balances it has. Again, I am not a spokesperson for the organization or in the loop on these decisions. On the publicity info, I will say that other sexuality workshops I have attended share about the same level of detail.
As for why I have commented on the things I have (and not on others), I have written on the things I wanted to and things where I felt I could provide some useful information. If you want to take your feedback directly to HAI and get an official response on all your complaints, I will be glad to help you do that. It seems as if you want to talk with a decision maker or someone with a lot more answers to “why” than I have.
Siofra
human awareness institute
Posted by:
siofra
()
Date: October 24, 2006 12:08PM
One other thing I want to comment on. Ghost said
"I also think that the "choice" to try to pressure someone is wrong. Do you think that pressuring someone is wrong? One problem I see with HAI is a refusal to allow someone to be at choice due to the pressure placed on them to do that HAI wants them to do. "
I believe in not pressuring people. I do not believe, however, that because I feel pressured someone else has necessarily pressured me.
From your comment I see another place we see HAI differently. I believe (after serving on team 15 times and attending over 500 hours of volunteer trainings) that what HAI wants is for people to make choices which serve them. I have seen thousands supported in doing this including choices to share their criticisms (at workshops and privately), modify exercises, stay out of exercises or leave workshops. I actually see HAI being far more supportive of this than any other personal growth workshop I can think of (and I attend 2-4 non-HAI workshops per year).
Siofra
"I also think that the "choice" to try to pressure someone is wrong. Do you think that pressuring someone is wrong? One problem I see with HAI is a refusal to allow someone to be at choice due to the pressure placed on them to do that HAI wants them to do. "
I believe in not pressuring people. I do not believe, however, that because I feel pressured someone else has necessarily pressured me.
From your comment I see another place we see HAI differently. I believe (after serving on team 15 times and attending over 500 hours of volunteer trainings) that what HAI wants is for people to make choices which serve them. I have seen thousands supported in doing this including choices to share their criticisms (at workshops and privately), modify exercises, stay out of exercises or leave workshops. I actually see HAI being far more supportive of this than any other personal growth workshop I can think of (and I attend 2-4 non-HAI workshops per year).
Siofra
human awareness institute
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: October 24, 2006 12:26PM
Quote
stevepremoQuote
GhostQuote
stevepremo
This is unrelated to the discussion, but I wonder... am I the only person in this discussion who gives his real name and stands by his statements, rather than hiding behind anonymity?
Perhaps. But that is fine and you just need to deal with it. This is an anonymous posting board and if you feel the need to puff out your chest then take your act somewhere else. Rick has provided this forum for people, some who have been through seriously destructive cults, and they appreciate the anonymity of the Internet.
human awareness institute
Posted by:
DayDreamer
()
Date: October 24, 2006 09:48PM
As for why I don't use my real name.... well, I don't use my real name in ANY message board forum. I use DayDreamer or some derivative on all message boards and other online locations as well.
human awareness institute
Posted by:
stevepremo
()
Date: October 24, 2006 11:47PM
Quote
kath
Now I am not implying that HAI do this, but by exposing the group that I 'exposed' on this messageboard I recieved threats- legal, perhaps physical, and extreme pressure and stress though abusive emails applying pressure to me, they also emailed my partner, they made hastling phone calls to my friends all because I mistakenly joined up under my normal nickname. ... Hope this helps you understand
Thanks, Kath, that does explain it.
My prior experience with Internet discussions over the last ten years or so is that in more serious discussions people tend to use real names, and in forums where flaming and trolling is the norm, people tend to be anonymous. I strongly advocate and support the right to Internet anonymity, and at the same time, I tend to take anonymous posts less seriously.
Shakti, I did hear your request that I leave this discussion. I probably will at some point, but not in response to your request.
human awareness institute
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: October 25, 2006 02:52AM
Quote
stevepremoQuote
kath
My prior experience with Internet discussions over the last ten years or so is that in more serious discussions people tend to use real names, and in forums where flaming and trolling is the norm, people tend to be anonymous. I strongly advocate and support the right to Internet anonymity, and at the same time, I tend to take anonymous posts less seriously.
Shakti, I did hear your request that I leave this discussion. I probably will at some point, but not in response to your request.
1. I have read plenty of serious Internet discussions over the years with anonymous names, though yes, I can understand your point. However, if you do not take this discussion seriously because it is mostly anonymous, why do you care and why do you post here? Why not go find a message board where everybody else uses real names like you?
2. I am not requesting that you leave the discussion as long as you don't act as if you are somehow "better" or "more credible" than everyone else because you use your real name. And I can't make you leave anyway, but you will make yourself look like a schmuck if you have that attitude and undermine your own case. You seemed to accept another posters explanation, so apparently you now understand and this won't be a problem in the future. Right? Cool. Proceed...
human awareness institute
Posted by:
siofra
()
Date: October 26, 2006 05:41AM
Over the past few days, I have asked myself if Ghost's perception that I tried to create the impression that everyone makes the same types of sexual choices I do at workshops was accurate. I hoped it wasn't true because it would feel slimey to me. I wasn't strategic in what I sent and could have omitted this information unconsciously....I was concerned enough to go back and review all my emails.
I found in my first post that I had stated:
In my time with HAI, I have never crossed a safe sex boundary (doing anything where I had to worry about sexual safety) or dated a participant who I met when I was on team. I have never been coerced to do anything I didn’t want to do. I have attended other sexual education programs to broaden my understanding of this type of education and my experiences have only helped me appreciate HAI’s approach more. In other non-HAI workshops, I have been appalled by the lack of apparent choice and have sometimes disrupting the activity flow to say “no thanks”.
Having shared a lot about my experiences here (I'll get shy after I hit 'submit'), [b:20029384e4]do some people who attend HAI workshops make different choices than mine? Sure. HAI, like other growth workshops, is a melting pot of people at different levels of psychological development, with different personal inclinations and different needs. These individuals are responsible for their choices. I can’t claim to speak from all of these perspectives, I can only share mine and hope something I have shared gives you some different insights.[/b:20029384e4]
and later in the thread I shared the comment about people making a rainbow of personal choices.
I therefore believe that I have shared that my actions reflect on me and that others make a variety of other choices. (I will say, however, that my choices are not uncommon.) It is accurate to say I haven't discussed others' choices in detail - that would feel like crossing workshop agreements. But I have walked the line as closely as I could.
The peace I needed was in my own mind but, having done the research, I thought I would share it with you.
Siofra
I found in my first post that I had stated:
In my time with HAI, I have never crossed a safe sex boundary (doing anything where I had to worry about sexual safety) or dated a participant who I met when I was on team. I have never been coerced to do anything I didn’t want to do. I have attended other sexual education programs to broaden my understanding of this type of education and my experiences have only helped me appreciate HAI’s approach more. In other non-HAI workshops, I have been appalled by the lack of apparent choice and have sometimes disrupting the activity flow to say “no thanks”.
Having shared a lot about my experiences here (I'll get shy after I hit 'submit'), [b:20029384e4]do some people who attend HAI workshops make different choices than mine? Sure. HAI, like other growth workshops, is a melting pot of people at different levels of psychological development, with different personal inclinations and different needs. These individuals are responsible for their choices. I can’t claim to speak from all of these perspectives, I can only share mine and hope something I have shared gives you some different insights.[/b:20029384e4]
and later in the thread I shared the comment about people making a rainbow of personal choices.
I therefore believe that I have shared that my actions reflect on me and that others make a variety of other choices. (I will say, however, that my choices are not uncommon.) It is accurate to say I haven't discussed others' choices in detail - that would feel like crossing workshop agreements. But I have walked the line as closely as I could.
The peace I needed was in my own mind but, having done the research, I thought I would share it with you.
Siofra
human awareness institute
Posted by:
DayDreamer
()
Date: November 16, 2006 02:21AM
Having taken a survey from HAI, I was surprised to read that there were so many people who were uncomfortable with certain aspects - I was relieved to learn that I am not the only one.
human awareness institute
Posted by:
DayDreamer
()
Date: December 27, 2006 11:07PM
Lately I've been tempted to get back into activities with HAI. Diashto and I are no longer together. He moved out in early December.
I think that this is the very scenario that HAI preys upon. Loneliness, self doubt and feeling like love is lacking.
Needless to say, I'm NOT going to go back - but I have been tempted. Yuck.
I think that this is the very scenario that HAI preys upon. Loneliness, self doubt and feeling like love is lacking.
Needless to say, I'm NOT going to go back - but I have been tempted. Yuck.
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