A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 06, 2004 10:47PM
this site exists as an archive, a salon, and above all, a sanctuary for persons who have had painful experiences with LGATs and who feel they have been harmed, or that one of their loved ones has been harmed.
Calling people names is not helpful, and does nothing to remedy the problem. It only makes new visitors feel unwelcome, and we dont want that to happen.
Many, many persons are concerned about LGATs because these entities do NOT give people all the information they need to make a full, informed and conscious decision whether to participate.
Potential recruits are sometimes pressured by partners or even by bosses to take LGAT's and fear they will be dumped by their loved ones unless they comply. This is coercion/emotional blackmail.
Above all, persons are not told that there is a body of literature from the mental health profession documenting that persons who have particpated in LGAT's have suffered psychological stress, sometimes severe enough to require intensive psychotherapy and even hospitalization.
It should be clear that people who are harmed in LGATs are not 'suckers' 'stupid' or 'dupes.'
They have not been given information they needed to make a fully informed decision.
You can read the archieved material on LGAT's provided on this site and learn more.
.
Calling people names is not helpful, and does nothing to remedy the problem. It only makes new visitors feel unwelcome, and we dont want that to happen.
Many, many persons are concerned about LGATs because these entities do NOT give people all the information they need to make a full, informed and conscious decision whether to participate.
Potential recruits are sometimes pressured by partners or even by bosses to take LGAT's and fear they will be dumped by their loved ones unless they comply. This is coercion/emotional blackmail.
Above all, persons are not told that there is a body of literature from the mental health profession documenting that persons who have particpated in LGAT's have suffered psychological stress, sometimes severe enough to require intensive psychotherapy and even hospitalization.
It should be clear that people who are harmed in LGATs are not 'suckers' 'stupid' or 'dupes.'
They have not been given information they needed to make a fully informed decision.
You can read the archieved material on LGAT's provided on this site and learn more.
.
A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
MarkusWelch
()
Date: March 08, 2004 06:50AM
Quote
[i:f9e481f5b3]Originally posted by corboy [/i:f9e481f5b3]
this site exists as an archive, a salon, and above all, a sanctuary for persons who have had painful experiences with LGATs and who feel they have been harmed, or that one of their loved ones has been harmed.
Agreed.
Quote
Calling people names is not helpful, and does nothing to remedy the problem. It only makes new visitors feel unwelcome, and we dont want that to happen.
Proper identification is useful and new visitors may need just that.
Quote
Many, many persons are concerned about LGATs because these entities do NOT give people all the information they need to make a full, informed and conscious decision whether to participate.
Potential recruits are sometimes pressured by partners or even by bosses to take LGAT's and fear they will be dumped by their loved ones unless they comply. This is coercion/emotional blackmail.
Potential recruits are not told that trance induction, peer pressure and authoritarian humiliation by trainers will be used, or that many of the persons at these events who tell soulful stories are actors who are 'planted' in the audience by the LGAT to loosen people up.
The pressures if felt should be an indicator that something is wrong and that research is required. And if not felt they are indeed the perfect candidate.
Quote
Above all, persons are not told that there is a body of literature from the mental health profession documenting that persons who have particpated in LGAT's have suffered psychological stress, sometimes severe enough to require intensive psychotherapy and even hospitalization.
It should be clear that people who are harmed in LGATs are not 'suckers' 'stupid' or 'dupes.'
Those that attended fall into one of two categories: those that are actually stupid or those that were temporarily stupid. That they are harmed by attendence is secondary to the stupidity.
Quote
They have not been given information they needed to make a fully informed decision.
I disagree. They have been given the information just by the invitation or website or whatever. It is an error that they attend and those that leave will admit to being duped.
Quote
You can read the archieved material on LGAT's provided on this site and learn more.
And if you do a search for 'Guy' and 'gc4062' on these forums, you will get all kinds of insight from a former Landmark trainer (Guy) and staff member (gc4062) who both give the inside scoop on what went on at the trainings. Guy told us he taught himself to weep - it greatly increased his ability to manipulate people.
Thanks and Regards,
Markus
A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 08, 2004 11:30PM
Out of consideration for members who have privately communicated their concerns to me, I will no longer permit further posts to go through that continue this pattern of name calling. I will keep the offensive posts queued and refer them to Rick for his consideration. Helpful posts will go through.
If anyone disapproves of this, they are welcome to discuss the matter with Rick.
Vigorous discussion is one thing. Provocative, unpleasant name calling is quite different. If name calling becomes the norm, it will create a hostile atmosphere on this discussion board that would be similar to a 'hostile workplace environment.'
For the past year and a half we have successfully sustained vigorous discussion on RR.com without any use of name calling. No one complained of feeling deprived or silenced. No one has ever said that he or she felt their creativity had been hampered.
An embargo on the name calling is not censorship. Discussion takes place more readily in the absence of name calling.
By contrast, name calling chills discussion by creating an unpleasant atmosphere that alienates new visitors and demoralizes current members.
If anyone disapproves of this, they are welcome to discuss the matter with Rick.
Vigorous discussion is one thing. Provocative, unpleasant name calling is quite different. If name calling becomes the norm, it will create a hostile atmosphere on this discussion board that would be similar to a 'hostile workplace environment.'
For the past year and a half we have successfully sustained vigorous discussion on RR.com without any use of name calling. No one complained of feeling deprived or silenced. No one has ever said that he or she felt their creativity had been hampered.
An embargo on the name calling is not censorship. Discussion takes place more readily in the absence of name calling.
By contrast, name calling chills discussion by creating an unpleasant atmosphere that alienates new visitors and demoralizes current members.
A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: March 09, 2004 07:00AM
This whole area of LGAT is as wide, deep and emotional as subjects get.
It encompasses, the free will of the individual, something all citzens of the free world hold up as sacred.
It encompasses the very meaning and existance of life and one's faith or beliefs.
It encompasses, family breakups, divorce and distruction of friendships.
It encompasses suicide, psychotic breakdowns and the potential to harm peoples lives for the rest of their life.
It encompasses child abuse, particularly Landmark for Young People aged 8 to 12.
It encompasses financial hardship and loss of employment.
These are all highly charged emotive areas of peoples lives.
As a sufferer of LGATs from 12 years ago and as a sufferer of losing the love of my life to Landmark, I have the authority to make the claims that the above items are highly charged. I also have the responsibility to exercise compassion towards people who are caught up in LGATs. It's all a matter of patience, care and understanding.
I agree, no name calling but keep the discussion to the point.
BTW - this site and this discussion board have been largely instrumental in getting my loved one out of Landmark. She is now on the road to recovery.
Oz
It encompasses, the free will of the individual, something all citzens of the free world hold up as sacred.
It encompasses the very meaning and existance of life and one's faith or beliefs.
It encompasses, family breakups, divorce and distruction of friendships.
It encompasses suicide, psychotic breakdowns and the potential to harm peoples lives for the rest of their life.
It encompasses child abuse, particularly Landmark for Young People aged 8 to 12.
It encompasses financial hardship and loss of employment.
These are all highly charged emotive areas of peoples lives.
As a sufferer of LGATs from 12 years ago and as a sufferer of losing the love of my life to Landmark, I have the authority to make the claims that the above items are highly charged. I also have the responsibility to exercise compassion towards people who are caught up in LGATs. It's all a matter of patience, care and understanding.
I agree, no name calling but keep the discussion to the point.
BTW - this site and this discussion board have been largely instrumental in getting my loved one out of Landmark. She is now on the road to recovery.
Oz
A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
kittypaw
()
Date: March 09, 2004 10:24AM
Thanks for keeping us on point. I'm so glad your ex-partner is no longer a part of Landmark.
--Valerie
--Valerie
A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
MarkusWelch
()
Date: March 10, 2004 12:03PM
Quote
[i:b0e27f63ae]Originally posted by corboy [/i:b0e27f63ae]
[b:b0e27f63ae]Out of consideration for members who have privately communicated their concerns to me, I will no longer permit further posts to go through that continue this pattern of name calling. I will keep the offensive posts queued and refer them to Rick for his consideration. Helpful posts will go through.
If anyone disapproves of this, they are welcome to discuss the matter with Rick.
[/b:b0e27f63ae]
I suspect Rick would not have posted your opener here. I don't mean that he would have done it differently, although that may have been appropriate, perhaps in another thread...and in a different manner.
Regards,
Markus
A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 10, 2004 12:29PM
Rick by e-mail. This is Rick's site. I will abide by whatever he decides.
Until I get instructions from Rick, to do otherwise, I will stand by my original decision to block posts that are offensive name calling because they are the equivalent of schoolyard bullying.
Until I get instructions from Rick, to do otherwise, I will stand by my original decision to block posts that are offensive name calling because they are the equivalent of schoolyard bullying.
A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: March 11, 2004 02:29AM
>>BTW - this site and this discussion board have been largely instrumental in getting my loved one out of Landmark. She is now on the road to recovery.
Oz>>>
Any feedback on which posts, or was it cumulative, maybe?
Was there one particular poster who affected her?
Ted Patrick, the original cult "deprogrammer," talks about
finding that one special question that gets the person
thinking again. That one observation that sparks their
curiousity again. For so many, the mind snaps shut after
indoctrination much tighter than it ever was before. There
is the brainwashing itself to contend with and then the
grip that some people hold it with beyond the strength
most people would imagine.
I am happy for you. And her.
Ellen
Oz>>>
Any feedback on which posts, or was it cumulative, maybe?
Was there one particular poster who affected her?
Ted Patrick, the original cult "deprogrammer," talks about
finding that one special question that gets the person
thinking again. That one observation that sparks their
curiousity again. For so many, the mind snaps shut after
indoctrination much tighter than it ever was before. There
is the brainwashing itself to contend with and then the
grip that some people hold it with beyond the strength
most people would imagine.
I am happy for you. And her.
Ellen
A plea for some kindness
Posted by:
Concerned Oz
()
Date: March 11, 2004 08:32AM
Ellen,
To do this question justice requires a new thread which I will soon create.
This site and discussion board have been a help to my education. I have only passed on the site to her this week.
In the meantime, my response to your question is included in my original thread below as I don't want to send this thread off on my tangent away from Corboy's original intent.
Landmark - Advanced Course Info Needed:
[board.culteducation.com]
It's found at the start of page 2.
Oz
To do this question justice requires a new thread which I will soon create.
This site and discussion board have been a help to my education. I have only passed on the site to her this week.
In the meantime, my response to your question is included in my original thread below as I don't want to send this thread off on my tangent away from Corboy's original intent.
Landmark - Advanced Course Info Needed:
[board.culteducation.com]
It's found at the start of page 2.
Oz
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