I recently spoke with an ex-employer who was excited by the prospect of having his employees attend the Landmark Forum. He had just come back from an Intro Night and was going to do more. A lot more!

His reasoning was simple. He wanted better productivity. In his words, he was tired of in-house bickering, sick leave and just plain laziness. He envisioned a work team that really worked!

Of course he was promised by LEC that all of this would change if he and his employess addressed some fundamental issues (yeah, we've heard that before). Anyway, my ex-employee thought a small investment like this would make his business shine.

By this stage, he'd had a few drinks and was all smiles and verbosity. There was that 'sinister' glint in his eyes when he concluded that 'If only I could get everyone onto a level playing field'.

Of course I told him about my experiences and asked him to be careful. As usual, he wasn't interested in the 'negative' press, and definitely wasn't going to visit this site or any other 'hate' site. All I could do was humour him and feel sorry for the poor bastards still working for him.

And there's the catch! Landmark and other LGATs are tailor-made for employers with a singular bottomline. People are not really human beings. Sure they can act human in their own hours, but from this employers point of view he wanted uniformity at all cost. When I suggested that he was considering de-humanising his employees he replied, 'Sure, why not. As long as profits are up everyone's happy. Right?'

Yeah, right!

There's a subset of customers attracted to Landmark for the exact reasons you've described above -- they like the idea of controlling and exploiting others and relish the prospect of squeezing more out of them. Think Werner Erhard and his exhausted and discouraged door-to-door sales teams. He designed est using the tricks and tactics he practiced on those foot-weary worker-bees. The whole thing pretends to be about (self) control as in "control your own destiny." It's really about a few top dogs controlling a bunch of laborers and those who aspire to the top dog position take to the stuff like pigs in **** all the while fooling the worker bees into believing that they are acting in their own best interests. It's one big joke. Reminds me of Norbert Wiener's, "The Human Use of Human Beings," which was turned on its ass in "Psycho-Cybernetics," Maxwell Maltz's contribution and another of Werner Erhard's "inspirations" and confirmation of his assertion of the machine-like nature of humans and their automatic, repetitive, unthinking responses. Funniest thing -- his cult turns people into the robots with robotic lives he was supposedly delivering them from.


Ellen

And the stories I hear again and again from Lekkies pulling one more recruiting trick out their hats are those involving organisations sending their workers to these forums. There are the classic ones involving the police force, particularily in South America. I think deep down many who get involved are wannabe leaders and they're willing to volunteer their money and time for the promise of climbing to the top of the heap. I suspect the real bottomline is the [b:1314fc1e59]self[/b:1314fc1e59] at all cost. I mean, how many Lekkies do we all know that don't really give a sh!t about anyone else? Fair enough to work on oneself, but not at any cost IMO.

Quote
Jack Oskar Larm
I recently spoke with an ex-employer who was excited by the prospect of having his employees attend the Landmark Forum. He had just come back from an Intro Night and was going to do more. A lot more!

His reasoning was simple. He wanted better productivity. In his words, he was tired of in-house bickering, sick leave and just plain laziness. He envisioned a work team that really worked!

Of course he was promised by LEC that all of this would change if he and his employess addressed some fundamental issues (yeah, we've heard that before). Anyway, my ex-employee thought a small investment like this would make his business shine.

By this stage, he'd had a few drinks and was all smiles and verbosity. There was that 'sinister' glint in his eyes when he concluded that 'If only I could get everyone onto a level playing field'.

Of course I told him about my experiences and asked him to be careful. As usual, he wasn't interested in the 'negative' press, and definitely wasn't going to visit this site or any other 'hate' site. All I could do was humour him and feel sorry for the poor bastards still working for him.

And there's the catch! Landmark and other LGATs are tailor-made for employers with a singular bottomline. People are not really human beings. Sure they can act human in their own hours, but from this employers point of view he wanted uniformity at all cost. When I suggested that he was considering de-humanising his employees he replied, 'Sure, why not. As long as profits are up everyone's happy. Right?'

Yeah, right!

"Negative" press is one thing, but perhaps this employer and other employers would be interested to hear that the United States Federal Department of Labor had investigated the company for possible Labor Violations, on multiple occassions, and was also investigated twice by the Federal Department of Labor in France, and classified as a "cult" or "sect" by countries including Austria and Sweden, Germany, etc.

There is definitely a subset of LGAT followers, who see pretty clearly what is going on with the LGAT, and they just want to learn how to do it to others, as good as the LGAT is doing it.
They go to the LGAT perhaps at first a bit starry-eyed, but many of these folks are professional salespeople. Right away they see that the LGAT leader is simply "selling" the masses their stuff, at wildly inflated prices, and manipulating their minds and emotions. They see very clearly that the LGAT leader is "scamming" all of those people, and making a ton of easy money for nothing.

But this does NOT make them despise the LGAT leader, this makes them like them even more! They also want to learn how to do this to other people too. They also want to make tens of thousands of dollars in a weekend.
They look at the LGAT leader as a manipulative lying scumbag, but one who is making a ton of money off people quite easily, and they simply want a piece of the action.

Some employers can be like this, they see Landmark getting people to work for free, and they also want to get people to work overtime for free, and things of that nature.
There are many followers of Tony Robbins, who know all about the lies, and distortions, and all of the bullshit. They LOVE it. They love the fact that Tony Robbins knows how to tell these people complete nonsense, and get them to believe it, and charge them a fortune. This subset of LGAT followers do not trust the LGAT leader at all, they know he's a scammer, and that's why they want to study what he is doing, so they can also do unto others as is being done by the LGAT.

Those kind of LGAT followers only care about trying to use the LGAT techniques to get a piece of the action themselves, and they laugh at how "stupid" they think other people are. They couldn't care less if people get hurt.

...Otherwise known as sociopaths. Or users.


Ellen

Quote
ajinajan
"Negative" press is one thing, but perhaps this employer and other employers would be interested to hear that the United States Federal Department of Labor had investigated the company for possible Labor Violations, on multiple occassions, and was also investigated twice by the Federal Department of Labor in France, and classified as a "cult" or "sect" by countries including Austria and Sweden, Germany, etc.

All I ever get are blank stares and shaking heads. It doesn't matter if it's an employer getting high on this 'new technology' or an individual with aspirations to improve him/herself. It is frustrating from my point of view, but I usually let it go and talk about the weather.

There is obviously something within our human psyche that holds onto a sense of denial like our lives depended on it. If the subject or concern was to do with buying a car or television the conversation continues in a normal way. But with LGATs it's a no-go zone and I'm seen as a deluded hate-monger happy to swim in my own muck.

What can you do? I compare it to being a parent with a child who wants to do things their own way. Fair enough, I say. Sometimes we have to suffer our own ignorance to come to some kind of understanding.

With regard to employers, I agree that many see LGATs as a way to instill their vision onto their employees. A way to create a collective that is focused on the doctrine of the business they're involved in. If there are casualties they just suppose that there had to be a predisposition anyway. Mental illness? In one particular employers words, "They were mad from the beginning!"

> ...Otherwise known as sociopaths. Or users.

Indeed. But the main problem is that it's not actually illegal to exploit other people's gullibility, because of the presumption of reason.
If Landmark says "Give me $450 and you'll be transformed and if you're not satisfied you can get your money back", where is the actual illegal (as opposed to unethical) act? Right now there is a used car salesman on the corner telling a guy "If you buy this car you can get the chicks." Nobody coerced him to buy the car. He was just played for a gullible chump.
In the U$A this is not illegal (even though it's highly unethical).

Same with the user "Ghost Dancer" and tragically losing his wife to Landmark. How could you prove legally that Landmark is controlling her mind without needing to check her into a mental hospital? Otherwise, she is a consenting adult with presumption of reason who is making a lot of very stupid decisions. What to do?
I suspect this is why lawyers don't take up any of these cases against Landmark abuse.

(Correction: "Ghost Dancer" is dealiing with a different LGAT, PSI, but the same question applies.)

Quote
joe6

I suspect this is why lawyers don't take up any of these cases against Landmark abuse.

Yes. It is evident that to many people the idea that they are in complete possession of their own minds, their own opinions, and their own decisions that to suggest otherwise throws them into a panic they can barely tolerate. It is like questioning someone's sanity to offer that they might have been swayed, tricked, or manipulated by nefarious tactics hidden from them. They are so certain they are able to weigh evidence and evaluate facts that they can be taken for one very long ride using this against them. It's the old "free will versus coercion" argument that mostly falls in the cults' favor. It is one big "sacred cow," that's for sure.


Ellen