Happy, This sounds like the same kind of bullshit shouted out by PSI Graduates. They give you "the tools." And you are not telling the truth. You're only reciting the same BS. "I have no reason to lie." I lost my wife to the same kind of redirect you spouting here. And we were living a "great" life before my wife's return from PSI7. Much like you are doing here on this board. Why did she had the "sudden" need to change? You're living in a dream world, FACE Reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your saying the same BS she did shortly after she left. And I fear that one day your day to wake up is going to come.[/quote]

Nobody knows your situation, your wife may have had great incentive to leave. Why should anyone trust you when you call others liars. How do we know that YOU aren't the liar. The common theme seems to be that anyone who states that they have had a positive experience with Discovery gets visciously attacked. Quit blaming some weekend seminar and take some responsibility.

Moderator you keep asking for proof that discovery bears long term results. Why dont you show me a specific report talking about Discovery's (not some other seminar that has nothing to do with discovery) negative effect on its participants and then I will give you the same credence that you demand of those who disagree with you. Until such a study is revealed then this is all biased, second-hand speculation. You are dealing with what-ifs and heresay and act as if it should be accepted as gospel.

Church camps, high school sports teams, private schools, churches, group therapy, the military, and fraternities and sororities all contain some of those liabilities...are they dangerous, are they cults...to some yes, so what, shut them all down...How many more freedoms do you want to take from people? You think you know better than me what is helpful to my life and what I can or cant handle....WOW.

If you arent going to acknowledge the positive aspects of discovery but focus on the few negative posters (none of who actually attended themselves) then that is the very definition of bias.

Double standards seem to run rampant on this thread, abusers complaining about alleged abuse, subjective people demanding objectivity, people offering no respect for different opinions but expecting complete conformity to their own.

Otts stated

'I had sent a text message to his wife stating that I hoped things were going well with her (I also wrote her a reference letter for a scholarship to the second session of Discovery). Those are hardly the actions of a cult member, they are in fact the actions of a freind, tho notmuch4games has succeded in making sure that his wife has no freinds."

I want to make sure I understand. You contacted notmuch4games wife and encouraged her to do something that you were aware was causing stress in her marriage?
Is that a tool you learned in discovery? How arrogant to think you should become involved (offer therapy?) in someones marriage when you only have met one of them. Why would you encourage her without having ALL of the facts? Is that showing respect for others?

Guess what slick, I made the same offer to explain it in person to those idiots who did the same thing to my wife. Discovery members and staff had clearly threatened the mental well being of my family.
Come on Happy, I want to hear your responses to the moderators questions.

EC

happy:

Nothing hard to understand about my previous posts.

Read the complete articles linked. One is by a psychologist that has studied LGATs and the other by a sociology professor at Stanford.

Where can I find proof that Dr. Phil started the "Discovery" program?

And you still have not answered the two questions asked previously, which were stated in easy to understand language.

1. Can you think of anything within the Discovery program that is wrong, which you would like to change?

2. Can you think of any criticism about Discovery on this thread that you would agree is valid?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2007 09:42PM by rrmoderator.

Otts:

You are here as an apologist for Discovery and a supporter of that program.

It's doubtful that anything stated here will change that.

But the study previously posted by a clinical psychologist (Philip Cushman) would be one research example of what's wrong with LGATs and the damage they often cause participants and their families.

Here are some additional examples:

See [www.culteducation.com]

This includes a listing of reports related to Landmark Education and psychosis.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This is the beginning of the analysis by Cushman followed by his summary regarding the liabilities and danger signs related to LGATs.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Here a forensic psychiatrist (John Hochman) evaluates an LGAT called Executive Success Programs/NXIVM.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Here a clinical psychologist (Paul Martin) evaluates the same program.

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

Here Martin compares Executive Success Programs/NXIVM to "thought reform" commonly called "brainwashing."

Three NXIVM students sought psychiatric treatment directly related to their seminar experience, one was hospitalized. One woman walked out of NXIVM intensive and committed suicide.

See [www.culteducation.com]

The suicide note found by authorities said, "I attended a course called Executive Success Programs. I was brainwashed and my emotional center of the brain was killed/turned off. I still have feeling in my external skin, but my internal organs are rotting. Please contact my parents ... if you find me or this note. I am sorry life, I didn't know I was already dead. May we persist into the future."

I receive complaints about LGATs constantly, and some have included people that have been hospitalized. That is, they were taken from the program to the hospital.

I have also received many complaints from families and concerned friends about the negative changes and impact wrought by LGAT programs.

My professional experience regarding LGATs began in the early 1980s. And I have received hundreds of complaints.

Quote
Otts
Moderator you keep asking for proof that discovery bears long term results. Why dont you show me a specific report talking about Discovery's (not some other seminar that has nothing to do with discovery) negative effect on its participants and then I will give you the same credence that you demand of those who disagree with you. Until such a study is revealed then this is all biased, second-hand speculation. You are dealing with what-ifs and heresay and act as if it should be accepted as gospel.

Ott,

There is plenty of evidence to support rrmoderator's claims of LGAT problems and negative results. Since every LGAT seems to draw on much of what is taught in Landmark, Lifespring and EST there is no need to the measure results of each one individually when the processes themselves are in question and have been proven harmful. If someone takes a piece of crap and wraps it in a new package and calls it discovery I do not have to open the package and smell the crap to know what I am getting. The burden of proof is on Discovery to justify why they consider themselves to be effective when the organizations that they based their training on are so harmful.

Happy and Dano- Please understand that im not some crazed bully who goes around making threats and hating victims of Discovery. I am angry about the things that were done to my wife. She is the love of my life and when people abuse her it hurts me to my core. I have nothing but sorrow for you and the others who have been duped by Discovery Abuse Class. Please understand that I am not a violent man and I have no ill will toward people seeking truth about Discovery Abuse. It is abuse, and you will see that one day.

Otts-you are quoting the Discovery excuses that i was given by your second mom and dad, who practically run the abuse class from our home town. For those of you who arent aware, Otts was much more than just another new recruit when he attended his first abuse class. They are grooming you Otts- Do you have any original imput of your own to add? Tell them to post their own lies and stop using you as a go between.

And comparing Discovery training to military training as Otts did IS accurate. We agree for once! The military breaks men and women down physically and emotionally and builds them back up. This turns normal people into trained soldiers who will literally kill on order without question OR CRITICAL THOUGHT. This is a good thing for our armed forces and it makes this country safe for the rest of us-

But why would a CULT like Discovery train this way?

WHAT IS DISCOVERY TRAINING YOU FOR???

Quote
formerimpactgrad
. Since every LGAT seems to draw on much of what is taught in Landmark, Lifespring and EST there is no need to the measure results of each one individually when the processes themselves are in question and have been proven harmful.

This is an incredibly ridiculous suggestion. If one clothing company is gound to be using overseas child labor, do we just assume that every clothing company is? You are making judgements on one organization based on your ideas of a completely different organization. Arguments based on landmark, but applied to discovery lack any credibility.

Sorry, but there is no brainwashed guy on the other end of this post, no discovery acolyte or employee (I have only spent 5 days in three months at discovery events). I have no desire to offer therapy to anyone. The only reason I am even on this site is because I wanted to be objective about my discovery experience and the organization itself, instead I found abuse, arrogance, and moderators who try to make others feel inferior and are far from objective.

Read the website that I listed in my the previous post. It tells you there.

happy:

For the third time, will you please answer my questions.

If you have answered this questions somewhere else then cut and paste those answers here within this thread.

Just answer.

Please don't be evasive.

Quote
Otts

Quote
formerimpactgrad
. Since every LGAT seems to draw on much of what is taught in Landmark, Lifespring and EST there is no need to the measure results of each one individually when the processes themselves are in question and have been proven harmful.

This is an incredibly ridiculous suggestion. If one clothing company is gound to be using overseas child labor, do we just assume that every clothing company is? You are making judgements on one organization based on your ideas of a completely different organization. Arguments based on landmark, but applied to discovery lack any credibility.

Sorry, but there is no brainwashed guy on the other end of this post, no discovery acolyte or employee (I have only spent 5 days in three months at discovery events). I have no desire to offer therapy to anyone. The only reason I am even on this site is because I wanted to be objective about my discovery experience and the organization itself, instead I found abuse, arrogance, and moderators who try to make others feel inferior and are far from objective.

Actually Otts you may not be aware but companies that operate overseas are required to prove that they are upholding certain labor standards. If the company is not disclosing their practices then they can be fined large amounts of money. Are you sure that you're not brainwashed?