OTTS- Who threatened you? I'll jack them up. Send me the name and address!

What I would like is for you and the others to aknowledge the way they broke you down with physical and much verbal and emotional abuse. Thats why some of us hard asses have been calling it DISCOVERY ABUSE TRAINING. DAT make sense???

You dond have to hurt people to help them. That is the point. And sometimes people do improve their lives after being subjected to extreme mental and physical abuse. John McCain says he is a better and more enlightened person after spending all those years in that prison in Hanoi but that doesnt mean the prison or the "experiance" was good- It wasnt good it was horrific like the abuse Discovery doles out.
Stop your loved ones from going to be ABUSED. Stop D now!

To whom it may concern:

Let's stop all the threats and name calling on this thread.

It seems like we have a couple of trolls here that want to subvert the thread.

That is, supporters of LGATs that hope to subvert this thread and get people to stop posting here.

Notmuchforgames -

Please tell me that you didn't just compare discovery training to the horror and torment John McCain rec'd when he was a POW.

Seriously. You have got to be kidding me.

Your questions in that post do not even deserve a response.

justplanodan-

This is the type of personally that post on sites such as this. Notmuchforgames and others on this site make way more out of Discovery that it really is. You and I know and others that have gone thru Discovery know that if you don't go away with anything else is that you will learn that life is about the service that you give to other people. It taught me to learn to live from my heart more and not always from my head. I always read about critical thinking on this site and there is a tme and place for both types of thinking. And by the way mr. moderator are you asking those of us that approve of Discovery not to post here any longer? It seems to me that the people that are against Discover are the ones who want to bully the ones off this site.

happy:

You may post here, but you must stay within the rules.

FYI--As you should know LGATs are deeply problematic as their histories of complaints, bad press, litigation and personal injuries demonstrate.

Most people prefer to choose safer alternatives.

Many people are hurt by LGATs as this and other threads demonstrate.

There have been significant complaints about Discovery here.

What do you see within Discovery that is wrong, that you would like to see changed?

Is there any criticism about Discovery that you see as justified?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2007 05:43AM by rrmoderator.

To whom it may concern:

Let's set some guidelines regarding what to watch out for in LGATs.

Does Discovery have some of these liablities?

See [www.culteducation.com]

13 liabilities of encounter groups, some of which are similar to characteristics of most current mass marathon psychotherapy training sessions:

1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.

2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.

3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.

4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.

5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.

6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.

7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.

8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.

9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.

10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.

11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.

12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.

13. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.

groups were determined to be dangerous when:

1. Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.

2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.

3. Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.

4. Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."

Many LGATs have been called "cult-like" or even labeled as "cults" largely because of coercive persuasion techniques they frequently employ during thier programs.

See [www.culteducation.com]

The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are:

1. The reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self to promote compliance

2. The use of an organized peer group

3. Applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity

4. The manipulation of the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified

Many people are hurt buy many other things in this world. I looked back on the beginning of this post and it has been only since July of this year that anyone has posted about Discovery. This program has been going on many years and of all of the people that have gone thru it only a hand full on this site have had a bad outcome. Any thing that anyone gets involved with has a chance to go wrong. It frustrates me that people that post against it have never gone thru it and seem to have so much knowledge of it. I can truly understand how someone could think that Discovery is a cult. But you need to look at the entire program before you make judgement calls on it. If you really understood what the end results were I know that you would think differently about it. This program leads you to understand that life is not about you. It is about service to other people and finding out what you have a passion for and making a difference in this world. But for some reason no one what to hear about that. People go into Discovery with problems and yes it is a hard weekend because you have to face your demons. That is never pleasent. Discover is just a program to teach you tools to use in everyday life and how to become a better person for yourself-your family and for those around you. I know that I will never convince any of you but that is just the truth. I have no reason to lie.
The biggest reason that people think that Discovery is a cult is because no one will give much information about the program. The only reason for this is because they want you to have your own experence and not to have preconcieved ideas before you come. Dr. Phil McGraw was the original owner of this program many years ago and it was bought by the current owners and re-vamped into a more user friendly program. The original program was a week long and too complicated. Now Dr. Phil is a licensed professional. This program was not thought up by some stupid people as has been indicated on this thread. Do you think that Dr. Phil was ever the leader of a cult? I don't think so. Some of the exercises are designed to get you to think about what is in your past that keeps you from living the life you want to live. That is it. So many time we use our past as excuses for not living a great life. Some spouses on this thread feel threatend when their wives or husbands came back because they did not feel included in the process and they came back knowing people that they did not know and other people calling who they did not know. This can be hard on those who are not trusting. One post on here said that he came back depressed from Discovery. Guess what so did I. I have had several bouts of depression in my life, but I am not going to blame Discovery for it. But for me it was because it was a very emotional weekend and I did not feel good for a week. Others come back feeling differently. Everone is different guys. I know this is a long post but I just want those that read this to try and understand a little more about it.
For the record mr. moderador I have posted by the rules. I have not been the one who has used bad language or said things awful things about a mans wife dnd so on. So please read back and take a look at what has been said and remind those that oppose that post on this site of the same rules.

happy:

You are attempting to make a false argument.

I have not stated that Discovery is a "cult."

Discovery is an LGAT (large group awareness training), though one supporter described it as "therapy" on this thread.

People posting here about problems with Discovery seem pretty serious and upset.

It's interesting that you point out "Dr. Phil" and his involvement in this LGAT.

You didn't answer any of the questions asked.

Why is that?

Quote
happy
Many people are hurt buy many other things in this world. I looked back on the beginning of this post and it has been only since July of this year that anyone has posted about Discovery. This program has been going on many years and of all of the people that have gone thru it only a hand full on this site have had a bad outcome. Any thing that anyone gets involved with has a chance to go wrong. It frustrates me that people that post against it have never gone thru it and seem to have so much knowledge of it. I can truly understand how someone could think that Discovery is a cult. But you need to look at the entire program before you make judgement calls on it. If you really understood what the end results were I know that you would think differently about it. This program leads you to understand that life is not about you. It is about service to other people and finding out what you have a passion for and making a difference in this world. But for some reason no one what to hear about that. People go into Discovery with problems and yes it is a hard weekend because you have to face your demons. That is never pleasent. Discover is just a program to teach you tools to use in everyday life and how to become a better person for yourself-your family and for those around you. I know that I will never convince any of you but that is just the truth. I have no reason to lie.
The biggest reason that people think that Discovery is a cult is because no one will give much information about the program. The only reason for this is because they want you to have your own experence and not to have preconcieved ideas before you come. Dr. Phil McGraw was the original owner of this program many years ago and it was bought by the current owners and re-vamped into a more user friendly program. The original program was a week long and too complicated. Now Dr. Phil is a licensed professional. This program was not thought up by some stupid people as has been indicated on this thread. Do you think that Dr. Phil was ever the leader of a cult? I don't think so. Some of the exercises are designed to get you to think about what is in your past that keeps you from living the life you want to live. That is it. So many time we use our past as excuses for not living a great life. Some spouses on this thread feel threatend when their wives or husbands came back because they did not feel included in the process and they came back knowing people that they did not know and other people calling who they did not know. This can be hard on those who are not trusting. One post on here said that he came back depressed from Discovery. Guess what so did I. I have had several bouts of depression in my life, but I am not going to blame Discovery for it. But for me it was because it was a very emotional weekend and I did not feel good for a week. Others come back feeling differently. Everone is different guys. I know this is a long post but I just want those that read this to try and understand a little more about it.
For the record mr. moderador I have posted by the rules. I have not been the one who has used bad language or said things awful things about a mans wife dnd so on. So please read back and take a look at what has been said and remind those that oppose that post on this site of the same rules.

"That is never pleasent. Discover is just a program to teach you tools to use in everyday life and how to become a better person for yourself-your family and for those around you. I know that I will never convince any of you but that is just the truth. I have no reason to lie."

Happy, This sounds like the same kind of bullshit shouted out by PSI Graduates. They give you "the tools." And you are not telling the truth. You're only reciting the same BS. "I have no reason to lie." I lost my wife to the same kind of redirect you spouting here. And we were living a "great" life before my wife's return from PSI7. Much like you are doing here on this board. Why did she had the "sudden" need to change? You're living in a dream world, FACE Reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your saying the same BS she did shortly after she left. And I fear that one day your day to wake up is going to come.

rmoderator-
I guess my non critical thinking brain can understand what you are talking about. Talk about language that I don't get. If you will please rephrase these guidelines to those of us that understand plain english then maybe I can answer your question. By the way Dr. Phil did start this program, it was not called Discover when he had it. All the information is at www.discovery-training.com. I don't make this stuff up.