Some of the replies regarding the Landmarkian sales people reminded me of my time on Wall Street. When I was young in my career I had the opportunity to work in on the highest volume sales offices in NYC. The stockbrokers would have a team of cold callers who would "qualify" potential customers. At first I was completely enamored by the French cuff shirts, $50 haircuts, and promise of untold riches.

What I figured out after about 2 months there was, none of the Stock Brokers gave a crap about their clients, only their [b:02dd28892f]MONEY.[/b:02dd28892f] I also noticed that the majority of successful Stock Brokers were not even well educated, just good salesman. When I tried to have an intelligent discussion on investing (what they allegedly represented), they would side track with crap about sticking to "the script" and generating more qualified leads.

I soon became very disillusioned with the investment services industry. I found myself questioning the move "WALL STREET." How could Bud Fox have been wrong, this is what I wanted and it really didn't exist? I recall one time pushing "Circle K" or some stock like that and the guy on the other end of the phone was closed and lost 50% of his investment within a week, the brokers just laughed about it. I guess conscious and stockbroker didn't go hand and hand.

In the end I discovered that I knew more about investing then most stockbrokers. Fundamental principles like Dollar Cost Averaging and Long Term Strategy were contrary to generating commissions and therefore didn't exist in their vocabulary. I've seen many people over the years get burned by [b:02dd28892f]Investment Guru's[/b:02dd28892f].

Also reminds me the of fad diet guru's. Remember that Bald lady that was the infomercial diet queen in the late 90's. I can't remember her name, but she looked like Sinead O’Connor.

What it comes down to is that Landmarkians are all highly trained sales people, but are also highly skilled in mind control and manipulation techniques. Any good sales person knows how to find the "hot buttons" and then push them. Whether these Hot Buttons are "Getting Rich", "Getting Thin", or "Obtaining Enlightenment".

Any tips from senior members/ex-trainers as how to specifically undermine/unwind the landmark conditioning? I am including a post below that is actually the body of a new thread I just started, but here it is in case maybe somebody sees it here but doesn't find it there.


---initial post from thread about brainwashing techniques etc.

[Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I have a friend who has done the landmark forum, and the advanced course. It did alarm me when she was so "out there" after the forum... and we've had some intense discussions about it, and managed to stay connected, I feel. I tried to talk her out of the advanced course, and felt like I made some progress, but I was out of town... when I realized that she was determined to take the course, I did what I could to give her some perspective on things, and also to take a middle ground with her, so that I would not be immediately shunned if she were to undergo some kind of fanatical conversion process. We are still close... but it does piss me off this loyalty to LEC. And, I've been taking it apart bit by bit for her, helping her... undoing their subversion in whatever ways I can (for instance, by the use of various anecdotes and stuff, to bring up childhood memories and good memories of who she was and who she is; also, hammering away (subtly) at this lame-ass postivist notion that LEC is based on that the outside world doesn't exist, that everything and everyone somehow revolves around your own primary process and if you can just "remove" or "resolve" the barriers from your ego, then everything you want ("extraoridinary things") will just flow to you; etc. etc.) in order to help her be grounded and giving her a basis to eventually find her way out of this trap/mess that she has so willingly walked into, and now sits inside of, perfectly secure, unaware that to leave would be, difficult.

Anyway, last night I was reading Freud's "Group Psychology and the development of the ego in psychoanalysis" ( I believe that's the exact title). Anyway, it's startling, because it basically lays out the exact LEC formula as I've seen/read/heard about it. There is the discussion of the "primal horde" ie: the group of humans led by a strong leader; all the unconscious regression and group tendencies that powerfully and instinctually come into play in this surrounding, and more and more and more. There is a discussion of group hypnosis in this context... Freud calls it "indirect" hypnosis, which he says is just as powerful as direct trance induction. The primary technique, as Freud lays it out, is for the group leader to be present, and in charge, give a few rules/directives whatever, and then to force the group members into a situation which is completely boring and uninteresting. This, after period of time, causes the mind of the group member to want to withdraw from the outside world. However, as this happens, unconsciously, the member is focusing onto the leader of the group, and essentially going into a hypnotic trance. While the people are bored/tired/uncomfortable out of their minds, the leader is always present, so that unconsciously this transference can take place. As this trance/bond is deepened, it becomes a libidinal bond that is analagous to the child's early relationship to the parent: total suggestibility, fear of the leader, craving for the leader's acceptance, etc. Freud describes such groups as having a "passion" for total authority and to be led.

I read some interesting posts by some of the senior members of this forum, some of whom were coaches/leaders/ etc. I am very interested to know something about the training you receive on the way to that level. Specifically, do you know what some of the primary hypnotic "hooks" that are used are? What are the core "suggestions" that are used to "shape" the group members attending the forum or other courses? For instance, what teaching/exercise/thought stopping/anecdote etc. is used to create the strong belief that loyalty and connection to landmark is so vital and crucial etc. etc? What suggestions/hooks are used to motivate them so strongly to recruit others? What type of ongoing self-exercises are used to break down the individual's identity?

Specifically, what are the key factors that the forum leader must accomplish in order to secure a conversion for a long period of time? For example, yes, that is cool that they do the "everything is meaningless" consciousness raiser and all, but what is the underlying "hook" that is present that binds them to landmark, instead of them just saying "shit, cool, everything is meangingless, bye!" Hopefully, I am being somewhat descriptive here as to what I am talking about.

Ok, well, thanks in advance for any postings/answers!]