Just checking to see if anyone knows anything about the ManKind Project and cultic tendencies it might have. Have found nothing so far on my own.

Why I ask is that a friend belongs, and some of his behavior is unsettling. For example, the organization requires him to put it ahead of his family's needs. He "had to" send out emails and occupy the phone when his wife needed to call their baby's doctor because she was spiking a fever. The emails were more important than the health of the child. In addition, his wife reports to me that she knows someone at work whose ex-husband was involved, and that involvement resulted in their divorce.

Despite its secular non-sectarian nature, it seems to be no different than Promise Keepers in outlook, attitude (man superior, everyone else inferior), sexism, and degree of life control of its members.

Please let me know if you know anything about this group. Thanks!

Carol

You are on the right track.

click this link and scroll down to "other groups" and read the links on New Warriors Training, which is part of the Mankind project.

[perso.wanadoo.fr]

it would help also to read the history of LGATS in general, est, Landmark, Lifespring, etc. to get the overall pattern of what they do to people. The focus on men of this group is similar to Sterling. The New Warriors Training is a weekend intensive, of which you can find several descriptions of at the bottom of the Awareness Page.

The problem with LGATS is that more seem to spring up all the time, as the indoctronated particpants become well versed in the method, their egos grow large enough and they realize there is money in doing it on their own. The smaller ones have less info, but they are by and large very similar to each other.

Your friends behavior sounds exactly like someone in the emotioally intense aftermath of an LGAT weekend. I've been the significant other of someone in that state, and believe me, the phone calls and emails are MUCH more important to them than anything else in their lives just then.

The good news is that it isn't always hopeless. Please let us know if we can help.

Lori

The Mankind Project started sending me emails back in July.

This is a copy of the post I had here back then...
Has anyone been to this? They were advertising online that a seminar is being held in NYC. I looked up the home page and it sounds so much like Landmark Education that I did a little research. Nothing really suspicious came up, except that a Cliff Barry, who founded Shadow Work Seminars, did attend est seminars. Shortly thereafter, his weekend training was born. His business associates and trainers included Ron Hering, Bill Kauth and Rich Tosi, who went on to start Mankind.

There were just some words that jumped off the page - integrity, authenticity and commitment. And the weekend seems to be structured like Landmark\est. The info talks about doing shadow work in the weekend seminar.


The ad for The Mankind Project was on Craigslist. I posted a reply warning people interested to ask lots of questions, to be cautious as the seminar agenda sounded a lot of like Landmark.

Within a short time, someone posted back telling me to learn about "judgement" and how wonderful the program is and how he's now doing volunteer work in Harlem, NY. The person was just a bit defensive in response to a word of caution.

Thanks LoriS and Hope for your info. I have forwarded it to my friend so she can have some info on this. A "therapy cult" -- yeah, that sounds about right! Jim isn't quite so glazed-eyed as my husband was back in high school when he returned from a "Search for Christian Maturity" Catholic subcult brainwashing weekend, but you can't tell him anything bad about MKP.

My husband tries to put in his .02 on this foolishness by scoffing at the "little boys playing at being men" junk Jim talks about. He's a Freemason, and they have a whole different attitude toward what makes a good man, namely, family and church come before the Masons!!! I was wary about the "men only" aspects of Freemasonry, but I'm happy he's in it, and the guys are collectively the genuinely nicest men I've ever met (especially among older guys -- they are chivalrous and respectful without being condescending or sexist). In Freemasonry, if a man did what Jim did, he'd be in trouble with his Masonic brothers!

I know some of y'all might think of Freemasonry as a cult, but I saw no evidence of cult mind control or other behavior that would have set off alarm bells with me. They're also a hell of a lot cheaper than MKP and the other LGAT groups! My husband was a good guy to start with, and they have helped him to be better, not through "therapy" but through positive action and mentoring.

They have almost no control of our lives, as we haven't been able to be very active due to jobs and whatnot, so they have no way to "get" us. Even if we were active, they wouldn't be trying to change us, get us to accept a different faith or whatever, and that's cool. I know Freemasonry is seen as quaint, but there's a lot to be said for it (yeah, I know all the "bad" things said about it, but that mostly comes from the Religious Reich/Right). If it's made my dear hubby see the stupidity of MKP for what it is, then it's okay with me!

Anyway, didn't mean to go on about Freemasonry, just using it as a contrast to what I see as a lot of foolishness in MKP and the "Warrior Weekend" stuff. I appreciate all your help and the offer of further help if needed. I think a good start has been made so far -- thanks!!!

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carolz
Why I ask is that a friend belongs, and some of his behavior is unsettling. For example, the organization requires him to put it ahead of his family's needs. He "had to" send out emails and occupy the phone when his wife needed to call their baby's doctor because she was spiking a fever. The emails were more important than the health of the child. In addition, his wife reports to me that she knows someone at work whose ex-husband was involved, and that involvement resulted in their divorce.

That is unsettling. ANy group that asks that of it's members is questionable.

I have known several people who have gone to MKP's Warrior Weekend (including myself) and they have not gone to any other function, or felt like they needed to be part of the group. The weekend is interesting (to be sure!) and you learn and talk about things you wouldn't normally talk about with other men.

I will tell you that your 'friends' experience is odd, since nobody I know (about 3 people) from the 'weekend' does anything with the group since then, and we were not pressured in any way when we chose not to participate in the follow up meetings (mostly due to the time required, just too busy!)

Nobody has ever asked us for money, and given the nature of the people I have spoken with who run the group, I simply don't believe that this 'friend' was TOLD to do these things. I am willing to believe, like all of us, that he made a COMMITMENT to do a mailing by a specific date or time and felt obliged to do it. The story about the baby's fever and such is pretty extreme and I can't help but think it has been 'interpreted'. I wonder about the mans own values where he would even THINK to do one thing over another, especially when his Daughter has a 'fever'. What kind of man would do that?

Not a MKP type man - in MKP family comes first. This whole story is suspect to me because of the EXTREME response of the man given the situation. It sure seems like a story that was 'made' just to PROVE it's a cult - he was brainwashed. It's a little 'too perfect'.

But as I said, this is a second hand story so I suspect if it is TRUE then he may have been a bit obsessive and that's the real reason for his behavior.

Quote

Despite its secular non-sectarian nature, it seems to be no different than Promise Keepers in outlook, attitude (man superior, everyone else inferior), sexism, and degree of life control of its members.

Wow, this commetary is so incorrect. The 'man superior' thinkg especially. The lifetime goal is not to be superior to OTHER PEOPLE, it is to be a superior man in integrity, honesty and family. Isn't that waht men should strive to do anyway? Too many are absent fathers, or indifferent husbands. Sexism? WHere do you hear this crap. In MKP a woman is to be revered for her ability to bear children, and be a strong life partner.

So much information that has been heard here is mis-informed.

MKPO is not a cult, it's a group for men that strives to help us break free of being 'metro-sexual' losers and be the men we were meant to be. Too much of our society is trying to make men in to women. Men are men and need to get back to being in touch with their masculinity.

WHile some of the people who attend the weekends go on to be 'of service', apparently like the guy in this original post, NOBODY I KNOW takes any of it as extremely ad this person apparently did.

I don't go to any meetngs, and I know aout 3 guys who have gone to the weekend who also don't go. Just don't have the interest or the time.

Other than ONE phone call wondering how I was doing after the weekend I have gotten nothing from them, no offers to sell things, no pressure to go to their meetings. nothing. They just don't DO THAT.

I could care less what people think or say about MKW, but I find the 'fear mongering' based on lask of information, or a story about one persons obsessive behavior to be ridiculous. I just told you about 3 p3ople who had a good time and learned a lot - then went back to 'life as usual' without being pursued.

Their weekends are nothing more than a set of workshops for men and some excercises that build confidence, teamwork and a 'rite of passage' event. It was a litle weird at times but afterwards I felt like a new man, as did most of the other men who went.

Cut them some slack, they're just trying to help men find their balls after living in a world where being a 'real man' means metrosexual 'nice guy' who is lost in his own lack of manhood. MKP is just taking some of us into ourselves to re-learn that being a real man means something more.

Quote
Hope
The Mankind Project started sending me emails back in July.

This is a copy of the post I had here back then...
Has anyone been to this? They were advertising online that a seminar is being held in NYC. I looked up the home page and it sounds so much like Landmark Education that I did a little research. Nothing really suspicious came up, except that a Cliff Barry, who founded Shadow Work Seminars, did attend est seminars. Shortly thereafter, his weekend training was born. His business associates and trainers included Ron Hering, Bill Kauth and Rich Tosi, who went on to start Mankind.

There were just some words that jumped off the page - integrity, authenticity and commitment. And the weekend seems to be structured like Landmark\est. The info talks about doing shadow work in the weekend seminar.


The ad for The Mankind Project was on Craigslist. I posted a reply warning people interested to ask lots of questions, to be cautious as the seminar agenda sounded a lot of like Landmark.

Within a short time, someone posted back telling me to learn about "judgement" and how wonderful the program is and how he's now doing volunteer work in Harlem, NY. The person was just a bit defensive in response to a word of caution.

I'm not surprised. YOu took words in their post " integrity, authenticity and commitment" and used your own 'filters' to decide they MUST be 'just like' Landmark / est without actually talking to them or getting any actual facts. What else could you call that except for "judgement?"

I've been there. It's nothing like EST as I understand it. Was it rigid and organized? Not really. Pretty 'loose'. THere were some sessions that were emotional but there was nothing you HAD to do. Saying 'no' was not a problem if you wanted to. In a lot of ways is was like being 12 again, and also feeling like you were free to be yourself for once in your life around other men, and nobody would think you were weird. Very refreshing.

I wouldn't reccomend it for someone who has a lot of judgment - you need to have an open mind about YOURSELF to really get anything out of it. You shouldn't go unless you know someone who HAS gone and they recommmend it to you - because they will know if you'll get anything out of it or not.

I didn't do any of the followup meetings or other stuff. Other than one call from someone to see how I was doing, nobody asked me for anything. And it's been that way for 7 months. Hardly a 'cult' like behavior.

I hope this helps clear up some misinterpretations.

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carolz
My husband tries to put in his .02 on this foolishness by scoffing at the "little boys playing at being men" junk Jim talks about. He's a Freemason, and they have a whole different attitude toward what makes a good man, namely, family and church come before the Masons!!!

Your husbands judgementalism is not surprisiong. In fact there is no actual 'discussion' in any of this thread - just judgment and put downs.

Quote

I know Freemasonry is seen as quaint, but there's a lot to be said for it (yeah, I know all the "bad" things said about it, but that mostly comes from the Religious Reich/Right). If it's made my dear hubby see the stupidity of MKP for what it is, then it's okay with me!

Hmm, so Freemasonry is 'judged' by the 'Religious Right'. ANd now You judge MKP. Maybe you're being like those you despise?

Quote

Anyway, didn't mean to go on about Freemasonry, just using it as a contrast to what I see as a lot of foolishness in MKP and the "Warrior Weekend" stuff. I appreciate all your help and the offer of further help if needed. I think a good start has been made so far -- thanks!!!

If you think that posting uninformed judgemental opinions of a group is ' a good start' then I am sad for this. It's a sad time when we are so angry and bigoted that we cannot bother to do the research into any group we do not understand.

I wrote....."The ad for The Mankind Project was on Craigslist. I posted a reply warning[b:1e97ec7211][i:1e97ec7211] people interested to ask lots of questions[/i:1e97ec7211][/b:1e97ec7211], [i:1e97ec7211][b:1e97ec7211]to be cautious as the seminar agenda sounded a lot of like Landmark. [/b:1e97ec7211][/i:1e97ec7211]"

Frank - can ya read???? Why be defensive about telling people to ask lots of questions. I've done the Forum, the founders of MKP are esties, so it is highly likely that MKP has it's foundations in est\Landmark. If people have gotten burned in est or LEC, there is a good possibility MKP is more of the same. Their "technology" is so apparent, and their goal for taking back masculinity pretty much says it's, again, a one size fits all diagnosis for all attendees.

Same crap, different day.

frank_d:

Please offer something here other than put downs and would-be flames.

Your comments are no better than what you criticize.

MKP is an LGAT (large group awareness training) just like Lifestpring, Landmark and Sterling.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This link explains the problems with LGATs also called "Mass Marathon Training."

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

This link details coercive persuasion techniques, many of which are repeatedly reported to exist and to be used within LGATs.

The difference between MKP and other LGATs is the content, not the structure and dynamics.

This thread is filled with material that exhibits the manipulation and controlling contrived nature of MKP.

It isn't "bigoted" to raise questions, scrutinize and even criticize a group or organization. And you don't need to "experience" a group to critique it, any more than you need to attend Klan demonstrations, or march with Nazis to understand the general thrust of what they are doing.

Besides, there is enough information here from MKP to understand the content, dynamics and details of its LGAT retreat.

If you have come to the message board to flame you will be banned per the rules you agreed to.

If you want to participate dialog and post something interesting other than insults and attacks against others that post here.

From his consistent misspellings and obvious use of language patterns/same old lame defenses/ad hominems, I'd make an educated guess that it's our old friend Tex/Conway/Leibnitz/PaulKeith/ConcernedSister/LoveBunny/Etc. again. Guess he's bored over at AFL, since so many of us ignore him now. Can't get the rise out of us he once did.

Glam