Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
SaneAgain
()
Date: June 14, 2007 02:30AM
Rswinters suggested a separate thread for this and I think its an excellent idea.
I've posted his comments below.
Some problems:
1. Its intimidating taking on a large organisation when you have already been humiliated by them and wasted a lot of time and energy and money on their toxic junk. So its scary to start a legal action on your own and risk more of the same.
2. Past legal action has resulted in some organisations closing down eg EST, Lifespring, Landmark France - but then clones spring up in their place.
So I suggest:
1. For those of you who live in same country as each other, look at starting a class action case.
2. Investigate making a case against the "technology" rather than an organisation, if that is possible. EST sold their "intellectual property" to Landmark, and it seems Landmark has a kind of subsidiary Tekniko Licensing Corporation, which I'd guess sells rights to the technology (probably some organisations just use it, but maybe rights are sold in a traceable way). If you could trace the "technology" and gather up all the evidence from all the organisations into one pool, wouldn't that be more effective?
Those are my thoughts on legal action. I know that after all I've been through the last thing I want is a court battle with these people and for now my own peace of mind comes first, I'm just writing my thoughts for those who are up to it.
Are there any lawyers here? Because another question I have is about international law eg if Landmark got shutdown in the US would they still be able to operate in New Zealand? I guess so.. :(
As for education, I think we can make good use of the medical network if everyone who has suffered psychiatric ill effects and can link these to the trainings finds a doctor who has not done a training, and informs them of the connection. Doctors all speak to each other as well as people like medical reps, psychologists etc and they are bound by doctor-patient confidentiality, so its a good way of spreading information without the risk of putting yourself in the line of fire of your favourite LGAT.
Kind of like a notifiable disease, the LGAT virus :)
Also bear in mind that it could be really helpful to other people if they go to a doctor with strange symptoms, mention they've done and LGAT and the doctor knows what's going on and is better equipped to treat them.
Here are Rswinters original posts:
I've posted his comments below.
Some problems:
1. Its intimidating taking on a large organisation when you have already been humiliated by them and wasted a lot of time and energy and money on their toxic junk. So its scary to start a legal action on your own and risk more of the same.
2. Past legal action has resulted in some organisations closing down eg EST, Lifespring, Landmark France - but then clones spring up in their place.
So I suggest:
1. For those of you who live in same country as each other, look at starting a class action case.
2. Investigate making a case against the "technology" rather than an organisation, if that is possible. EST sold their "intellectual property" to Landmark, and it seems Landmark has a kind of subsidiary Tekniko Licensing Corporation, which I'd guess sells rights to the technology (probably some organisations just use it, but maybe rights are sold in a traceable way). If you could trace the "technology" and gather up all the evidence from all the organisations into one pool, wouldn't that be more effective?
Those are my thoughts on legal action. I know that after all I've been through the last thing I want is a court battle with these people and for now my own peace of mind comes first, I'm just writing my thoughts for those who are up to it.
Are there any lawyers here? Because another question I have is about international law eg if Landmark got shutdown in the US would they still be able to operate in New Zealand? I guess so.. :(
As for education, I think we can make good use of the medical network if everyone who has suffered psychiatric ill effects and can link these to the trainings finds a doctor who has not done a training, and informs them of the connection. Doctors all speak to each other as well as people like medical reps, psychologists etc and they are bound by doctor-patient confidentiality, so its a good way of spreading information without the risk of putting yourself in the line of fire of your favourite LGAT.
Kind of like a notifiable disease, the LGAT virus :)
Also bear in mind that it could be really helpful to other people if they go to a doctor with strange symptoms, mention they've done and LGAT and the doctor knows what's going on and is better equipped to treat them.
Here are Rswinters original posts:
Quote
I have an idea that come from yesterdays insane interaction with the topic yesterday.
Heres the topic for thread. Calling all lawyers, judges, legal aids, and legal minded people to help in a brainstorming conversation to discover ways to legally inflict blows to LGAT's, and ways to expose them to the public eye.....
I am frustrated at the legal system of our nation. There are so many loopholes, and ways that help these companies remain under the radar of the public eyes.
Well, heres the example from history I want to bring up.
Al Capone.
He manipulated the legal system, and covered his illegal tracks so will by the most hideous and unthinkable means. Which is why he was sucessful in this legal manipulation. He would use tactics, and do things that decent people would not dream of. He used these tactics well, and kept himself out of the public eye and was not seen for who, and what he truly was.
Here is where I am going with this idea. Al Capone had a choke hold on the obvious means of being legally exposed, and held accountable for his crimes.
Yet, a legal loop hole that he missed was found.
Tax Evasion if I remember correctly. He was not able to get out of this even with all of his power, control, and hideous tactics used to avoid being held legally accountable for his criminal behavior.
I believe we can learn from this historical event on taking on LGAT's.
Obviously we can't take them head on.
Participants including myself here. Chose to be brainwashed, and chose to participate.
We can go on, and on with how slimy this is. We can go on, and on on how deceptive it is.
Well, I can also recognize this is a losing approach also.
So, lets figure out ways to topple these giants in our country by finding there achille's heel.
I am in on this 100 percent.
Anyone else? I also recognize that I am not able to take on these LGAT's all alone. It will take a very organized, and well developed plan of attack by an organization of many people to do this task.
.....
My first suggestion for attacking these LGAT's is the legal waivers signed by participants.
For me it is plain and simple. I signed a release prior to stepping into the experience of having my psyche deeply manipulated in seminar.
I was told up front that I am responsible, and at choice for how I showed up and participated in seminars.
I was told that the more I gave emotionally. The more I would gain from these seminars.
Well, I gave it my all emotionally. I held nothing back.
Yes, I was not emotionally healthy and how I chose to apply these supposed tools in my life is my responsibility. Thus making any results my responsibility.
I am not even arguing this point. I take the responsibilty for it. I am not even blaming Klemmer for the destruction in my life.
I am however, and will forever hold them ACCOUNTABLE FOR IT THOUGH.
In this aspect. I believe with the help of legal professionals over a period of time, and sharing much about all the details.
I believe we can establish a legal standpoint to open up many lawsuits connected to this aspect.
I would definitely take on a lawsuit with this aspect as the crux for the case.
I believe there is strong legal aspect that is not being looked at here.
There is much in the realm legally where the federal goverment has stepped in with legal means of protecting the public from malpractice in many healthcare realms.
Mental health is no different. This mental health malpractice that is being done by LGAT's needs to be faced and stopped by legal means.
We don't go to a hospital and have major surgery and sign a legal waiver releasing hospital from any, and all legal liability for a doctor who performs in a manner that is deemed malpractice.
The Doctor gets held accountable for malpractice when it is found.
This is no different. Maybe if we get this aspect dealt with in the legal realm. It will open up a wave of lawsuits that will not be able to be blocked by legal loopholes currently in place by LGAT's.
Am I the only one who sees this aspect as a way to hit these LGAT's a deadly blow by removing a legal loophole that is currently in place?
believe if we can put our heads, and passion together. We can develop an organization of ex-LGAT participants who can use the tools that we have been given from these companies to create a way to bring their own demise.
Wouldn't that be hilarious? An organization formed by ex-LGAT'ers creating company with the specific focus of bring down LGAT's legally. With goals of exposing to public, and removing the key element of what is making them so sucessful
PARTICIPANTS!!! If we can educate people, and get some legal loop holes closed within the court system.
Wa la... No participants=no money=no profit=no companies
Thats what I am talking aboutQuote
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
SaneAgain
()
Date: June 14, 2007 02:35AM
oops... messed up the quote.
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: June 14, 2007 04:19AM
Just to let you know. I got a pm from a member that suggested we be careful in tipping our hand on how we are going about attacking these LGAT's.
It was mentioned there are many moles from these LGAT's that are reading these posts of ours.
It was suggested we communicate in a more secure fashion on these issues.
So, How can we set up this more secure method of communication. I am not worried of being heard with what I say.
Yet, I understand this persons concern, and even though I am not afraid to be known, or my opinions known.
It is a smart move not to tip our hand either.
Any suggestions on the next step then?
It was mentioned there are many moles from these LGAT's that are reading these posts of ours.
It was suggested we communicate in a more secure fashion on these issues.
So, How can we set up this more secure method of communication. I am not worried of being heard with what I say.
Yet, I understand this persons concern, and even though I am not afraid to be known, or my opinions known.
It is a smart move not to tip our hand either.
Any suggestions on the next step then?
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: June 14, 2007 04:34AM
Mind Dynamics was successfully brought down in 1973:
[en.wikipedia.org]
...
Investigated for fraud, practicing medicine without a license
In December 1972[29], Mind Dynamics was investigated for practicing medicine without a license, and fraudulent representation of the potential benefits of participating in their coursework.[9][30][2][31] The company was also investigated by the state of California for making fraudulent claims.[13]. A lawsuit brought forth by the State of California in 1973 requested that Mind Dynamics be barred from what California referred to as its unlawful practice of Medicine[1]. William Penn Patrick was named as a party with Mind Dynamics in the lawsuit[1].
Mind Dynamics ceased operating in 1973, after being investigated and charged with fraud and practicing medicine without a license[9]. According to an article in Forbes, as of 1974, the State of California was still seeking to enjoin the company from making fraudulent claims, and practicing medicine without a license[10].
[en.wikipedia.org]
...
Investigated for fraud, practicing medicine without a license
In December 1972[29], Mind Dynamics was investigated for practicing medicine without a license, and fraudulent representation of the potential benefits of participating in their coursework.[9][30][2][31] The company was also investigated by the state of California for making fraudulent claims.[13]. A lawsuit brought forth by the State of California in 1973 requested that Mind Dynamics be barred from what California referred to as its unlawful practice of Medicine[1]. William Penn Patrick was named as a party with Mind Dynamics in the lawsuit[1].
Mind Dynamics ceased operating in 1973, after being investigated and charged with fraud and practicing medicine without a license[9]. According to an article in Forbes, as of 1974, the State of California was still seeking to enjoin the company from making fraudulent claims, and practicing medicine without a license[10].
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
question lady
()
Date: June 14, 2007 05:31AM
I think that coordinating with other people in your geographical area to take action, whether legal, legislative, or public information might be a good start. In the US for example, it will be most effective if state legislation is sought by residents of that state.
Not everyone is comfortable disclosing their city and state of residence on the boards for many valid reasons. I am one of them. I would be comfortable disclosing that information to some people privately.
As a start, perhaps those who don't mind saying where they live could tell us and invite private messages from others in the area who are interested in taking action. Then people like me could decide how much information to disclose to that person.
So there's my idea for a starting point.
Not everyone is comfortable disclosing their city and state of residence on the boards for many valid reasons. I am one of them. I would be comfortable disclosing that information to some people privately.
As a start, perhaps those who don't mind saying where they live could tell us and invite private messages from others in the area who are interested in taking action. Then people like me could decide how much information to disclose to that person.
So there's my idea for a starting point.
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
skeptic
()
Date: June 14, 2007 06:38AM
Quote
elena
Mind Dynamics was successfully brought down in 1973:
[en.wikipedia.org]
...
Investigated for fraud, practicing medicine without a license
In December 1972[29], Mind Dynamics was investigated for practicing medicine without a license, and fraudulent representation of the potential benefits of participating in their coursework.[9][30][2][31] The company was also investigated by the state of California for making fraudulent claims.[13]. A lawsuit brought forth by the State of California in 1973 requested that Mind Dynamics be barred from what California referred to as its unlawful practice of Medicine[1]. William Penn Patrick was named as a party with Mind Dynamics in the lawsuit[1].
Mind Dynamics ceased operating in 1973, after being investigated and charged with fraud and practicing medicine without a license[9]. According to an article in Forbes, as of 1974, the State of California was still seeking to enjoin the company from making fraudulent claims, and practicing medicine without a license[10].
It seems to me that what applied to Mind Dynamics applies to all lgats. They all make fraudulent claims and are practicing [psychology] without a license.
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
maurice
()
Date: June 14, 2007 06:54AM
I'm from London. I would like to do something to stop lm, but i've never been staff so i don't have any proof of any tax fraud or things like that - even tho they do exist, as many hinted or confermed with a silent nod because they couln't speak because of the waivers and confidentiality agreements.
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: June 14, 2007 07:16AM
Time, give it time. Our numbers are growing. Knowledge is a wonderful thing. Being organised about it is real strength. Let's not forget that the wheels have been in motion for some time. I think the simple act of posting here has many untold benefits. It's easy to become frustrated, lost and small. Without forums like this, I couldn't be the strong individual I am now. I'm learning not to underestimate the influence I can and have had on many, many people toying with LGATs.
Continue the good work, folks!
Continue the good work, folks!
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: June 14, 2007 07:39AM
Quote
skepticQuote
elena
Mind Dynamics was successfully brought down in 1973:
[en.wikipedia.org]
...
Investigated for fraud, practicing medicine without a license
In December 1972[29], Mind Dynamics was investigated for practicing medicine without a license, and fraudulent representation of the potential benefits of participating in their coursework.[9][30][2][31] The company was also investigated by the state of California for making fraudulent claims.[13]. A lawsuit brought forth by the State of California in 1973 requested that Mind Dynamics be barred from what California referred to as its unlawful practice of Medicine[1]. William Penn Patrick was named as a party with Mind Dynamics in the lawsuit[1].
Mind Dynamics ceased operating in 1973, after being investigated and charged with fraud and practicing medicine without a license[9]. According to an article in Forbes, as of 1974, the State of California was still seeking to enjoin the company from making fraudulent claims, and practicing medicine without a license[10].
It seems to me that what applied to Mind Dynamics applies to all lgats. They all make fraudulent claims and are practicing [psychology] without a license.
Erhard Seminars Training was cited in Hawaii in the 1970s by their State Board, for practicing psychology without a license.
Ideas for legal action against all LGATs
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: June 14, 2007 09:43AM
I really believe this addressing the healthcare angle that the Mental health falls under is the achilles heel of LGAT's.
These companies operate across the nation, and even other countries. I believe the Federal goverment level is where it needs address most.
We can still pursue states, but I believe the Federal level is the place to strike from since these seminars are operationg across the nation.
Liking what is being posted. I see the foundations of these companies crumbling already. Wahhoooo
By the way, I am in Oregon.
These companies operate across the nation, and even other countries. I believe the Federal goverment level is where it needs address most.
We can still pursue states, but I believe the Federal level is the place to strike from since these seminars are operationg across the nation.
Liking what is being posted. I see the foundations of these companies crumbling already. Wahhoooo
By the way, I am in Oregon.
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