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Sane Again

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Ryk


If someone can help me make sense of these experiences, I'd really like to know (or was this just me?)

No, not just you! (Those hallucinations and so on) If you do a search on 'psychosis' and 'hallucination' on this forum, you'll find quite a few similar experiences.

I also remember people deep into Quest (and happily so) cheerfully discussing their 'spirit guides' in great detail - size, colour, shape, how they met them or how others in the group who were more 'psychic' saw them. Not to mention less cheery stories about malevolent spirits that had to be cleansed from their houses. At the time I thought they were "making up stories" but now I suspect they actually did believe the stories, as they were hallucinations.

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Sane Again

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Ryk

If someone can help me make sense of these experiences, I'd really like to know (or was this just me?)

I remember during the Joyspring workshop, going towards the stage to get my life contract validated- I wrote things on a piece of paper that for sure was not my hand writing- I write very illegibly, but this was pure and beautiful.

About where to go for help making sense of these experiences - I don't know. This is what I have found helpful (and not helpful)

(I'm writing it as advice but considering I am pretty skrewed up still, take it all with a pinch of salt and a lot of skepticism).
(Also - I've said some of it before, but there are new things that I hadn't considered before)

Sane again:

The screwed upness- I am pretty much with you on that one and pretty much still as messed up as before. I still cannot make freakin (wanna say something else) headway. This is so infuriating!! Fuck!#@# (sorry).

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mangwanya
One of the dudes from the centre inboxed me this:


Re: Quest (Johannesburg South Africa)
From: marcelle
To: mangwanya
Date: 07/06/2009 05:02PM

hi
i completed a both Turning Point and JoySpring almost the same month that Mangwanya walked out. i agree with the faciliator of the workshop fully that he will only give you your money back after you have completed and if you are at that point not satisfied. we had someone who walked out during our workshop but begged to come back and is totally satisfied with the results. a very close friend whom i also introduced to the workshop left on the third day as well of the second workshop but went back as well and as he calls it he is over the moon and can't comprehend the transformation he has undergone in this short space of time. i think that many of us had a problem with the methodoligy used but we went into the workshop open minded and wanted results hence we focused beyond our thoughts and feelings a method used which the writer himself made mention of.

my advise to the writer and all other viewers from a stranger who is just a friend you do not know, i recommend that you go back to the workshop and complete it if you do not after completion get the satisfaction many of us got then i guess you can take whatever action you wish. i am certain that there were reasons that drew you to enter the workshop don't fail yourself because of the method and also because of the fear you are faced with when dealing with feelings. take a step and do this for yourself

love and light
i believe that we are all beautiful souls punishing oursleves for issues we have no control over so we are human and all make mistakes give life a chance give you a chance.

WHAT A TRUCKLOAD OF GARBAGE. THIEVES!

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Sane Again
Symbolic Rituals - ancient rites

Ryk, if you are still out there...

I think the reason the effects are so long lasting and "hair-raising" is that in Joyspring and Inquest in particular (second level courses) they use elements of ancient symbolic initiation rituals. They combine that with the more modern brainwashing techniques discussed generally in this forum and the cult books.

Every known culture, throughout remembered history, has had 'extreme' rituals of one kind or another, for initiation. Usually for young (adolescent) boys and girls, to initiate them into adulthood - and to imprint the rules and values of the tribe or culture onto the participants, so that they can fit into the community and be useful in it.

The most worrying aspect of this is that the rituals are symbolic - beneath rational thought - and very dramatic and emotive - in the past they had to be very powerful to maintain the culture and rules, particularly where there was no literacy.

I have not read anything of this aspect in any of the literature on cults, or on this forum. Some describe modern rituals of the cult, but dismiss them as not very important, or as shallow things specific to the cult.

Over time I have come to realise that it is the elements of ancient ritual that are the most destructive and powerful and long-lasting. Everything else is window-dressing or a hook to get people into more courses. These 'modern' aspects are also very strong, based on sophisticated and subtle brainwashing techniques developed in recent times in the military, in psychology studies and in in marketing studies. I am not dismissing them. They are bad enough.

The ancient ritual elements are far more frightening because they have stood the test of time, world-wide. They have survived because they are effective. That is thousands of years of 'experiment' and 'empirical evidence' as opposed to the last 100 years or so of fairly narrow insights (eg Freud and his small set of clients in Vienna) and some military-industrial experiments.

I think the problem with recovering from cult experiences is that the symbolic, unspoken, ritualistic, metaphorical, poetic, dramatic and emotional elements are not attended to.

Ryk - for an example - you remember what your life contract was (the words) and what they SAID about it... but how much attention have you paid to the ritual and unspoken elements of it?

If Joyspring is like Inquest, then on the first day you are given a "bad name tag"... then emotionally bludgeoned with that tag for a few days, by trainers as well as other group members. When you 'get' your life contract - they take your bad name tag off. Do you remember that? That is approximately followed by a death ritual / funeral march with emotive music, to go with your contract, and some kind of love-bombing or other great approval all round.

I think the act of putting the name tag on, then abusing throught that tag, then removing that tag in the midst of a dramatic emotional experience - the symbolic action of what is done with the name tag is as important (or even, more important) than what you consciously and verbally remember - the words of your contract.

That whole episode is a life-death-rebirth ritual, probably stolen from several ancient rituals and adapted to the purposes of the lgat (ie profit).

There are hundreds of small symbolic things going on all the time. As an assistant you see a lot more of the details of them, but the explanations for them are pretty shallow (clear the energy, blah blah)

Maybe what I am saying seems obvious, but I haven't read anything that helps me with this element. Not shallow modern newly-invented rituals, but the use of ancient proven rituals.

I have thought about the 'flashbacks' I have had and have been able to tie them all back to symbolic things that were DONE, rather than what was said.

For example: in the first course there is the 'nothing' game, at the end of which you are 'enlightened' (shocked and dissociated) and then you blow out the candle at the door. I don't usually use candles at home but I got some for my birthday, and started lighting a candle if I woke up in the night, just to sit for a while without too much light. Then, I'd blow out the candle, go back to bed, and have Quest nightmares.

Another odd thing is posters. A while back I put some posters up in my house, kids' stuff. It made me feel queasy. Later I took the posters down to paint the wall, and that made me feel a whole lot better, but also with sweating and shaking going on. I realised it was to do with putting up and taking down the life contract posters, at Quest.

I'm finding that tracking down of symbolic and metaphorical things quite helpful, so I thought I'd write it down here to maybe help other people, and also find out whether anyone else has paid attention to all these non-verbal elements.

If anyone does remember any specifics of these non-verbal ritualistic elements, please do write about them.

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The most worrying aspect of this is that the rituals are symbolic - beneath rational thought - and very dramatic and emotive - in the past they had to be very powerful to maintain the culture and rules, particularly where there was no literacy.