SaneAgain:

Yes.

This thread is essentially about "Methods used by Quest."

It is not about anyone's personal religious beliefs used in recovery.

That focus is off topic.

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SaneAgain
...Remember that people reading this particular thread, which is about quest, may not be at that stage, and may not have read the entire board yet. They are still learning, they are still interested in these aspects, even if you aren't. They may also be be angry, and want to express anger. Anger is a symptom of PTSD and PTSD is a known effect of lgats. You were left in peace to express anger, very vociferously, for about six months. I don't think its fair to try to stop others doing the same...

SaneAgian. I just checked the dates that we both came to this website. We both came in the same month and year.

I hope you will get to a place where the anger is less for you in this matter.

I have experienced your anger first hand already. So, it will not surprise me if you choose to let me see it agian in your posts.

Your very angry, and that is very obvious.

I will leave this thread alone, and I will post on topic threads what is appropriate for the thread.

I hope the best for your recovery from Quest in your life.

God Bless you.
Rswinters

Hi All,

just FYI
In their abstract Ofshe and Singer write:

" Althoughh the evidence is limited, it suggest that physical brutality or deprivation, even when combined with interpersonal coercion, did not regularly cause emotional breakdown or psychotic episodes. There is a notable absence of report sof frequent psychotic breaks among American military prisoners and among improsioned Westerners in China. When dramatic, emotional reactions are reported, they invariably occur in violence-free settings in which targest are coerced by peers who are thier intimates (Hinkel and Wolfe, 1956, 160)."

'shad'

sheesh, look at all my typos!!!

sorry, I am posting in segments because I keep getting "timed out"...

further, Ofshe and Singer report in "Attacks on Peripheral versus Central Elements of Self and the Impact of Thought Reforming Techniques" ...

"The inference consisten with these reports is that psychological distrubance is more likely to be induced when targets of the influence process actively participate in group-based interaction and have been induced to tell the group about their histories and sentiments. One explanation for the relationship is that public exposure of even moderately intimate aspects of self permits peers to continually manipulate the target's emotionality." -- is it any wonder that people who are recovering from exposure to the LGATs often demonstrate volitile emotional reactions??!! -- who know what the "triggers" are that cause different people to react, eh?

further:
"Peer group members have the ability to focus their criticisms on signifant aspects of the target's self and to repeatedly arouse guilt and anxiety. In these programs, it appears that aversive arousal, coupled with peer rejection, became the driving force thorugh which the target was coerced."

I have noticed with my friend that the most obscure things set her off, and from one minute to the next I have no idea that something that was previously benign now becomes something that will cause her to burst into tears or get angry. And since she won't talk about her experience in the Landmark/EST courses, I have no idea what is going to set her off next. I feel like I am walking on eggshells.

'shad'

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The Shadow
sheesh, look at all my typos!!!

sorry, I am posting in segments because I keep getting "timed out"...

further, Ofshe and Singer report in "Attacks on Peripheral versus Central Elements of Self and the Impact of Thought Reforming Techniques" ...

"The inference consisten with these reports is that psychological distrubance is more likely to be induced when targets of the influence process actively participate in group-based interaction and have been induced to tell the group about their histories and sentiments. One explanation for the relationship is that public exposure of even moderately intimate aspects of self permits peers to continually manipulate the target's emotionality." -- is it any wonder that people who are recovering from exposure to the LGATs often demonstrate volitile emotional reactions??!! -- who know what the "triggers" are that cause different people to react, eh?

further:
"Peer group members have the ability to focus their criticisms on signifant aspects of the target's self and to repeatedly arouse guilt and anxiety. In these programs, it appears that aversive arousal, coupled with peer rejection, became the driving force thorugh which the target was coerced."

I have noticed with my friend that the most obscure things set her off, and from one minute to the next I have no idea that something that was previously benign now becomes something that will cause her to burst into tears or get angry. And since she won't talk about her experience in the Landmark/EST courses, I have no idea what is going to set her off next. I feel like I am walking on eggshells.

'shad'

There are a few books on cults that look interesting and might address some of these problems with dealing with cult members and coping as an ex-cult member:

Recovery from Cults, Langone and contributors

Take back your Life, Lalich

Cults in our Midst (make sure to get the 1995 edition for the info on Landmark Education), by the two-time nobel prize nominee, Dr. Margaret Singer

Rswinters wrote:

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I hope the best for your recovery from Quest in your life.

God Bless you.
Rswinters

God bless me? If I may quote Richard Dawkins:

[b:6f94010992]“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."[/b:6f94010992]

And if you don't believe that, go read your bible. Its all there.

Elena has already explained to you that its rude to bless people who don't share your faith.

Thank you for your excellent demonstration of hypocrisy.

Rswinters wrote:

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Even in my faith there is no room to blame the devil for my behavior.

Very impressive. I don't blame the easter bunny for my behaviour.

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SaneAgain
Rswinters wrote:

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I hope the best for your recovery from Quest in your life.

God Bless you.
Rswinters

God bless me? If I may quote Richard Dawkins:

[b:a8faa14b64]“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."[/b:a8faa14b64]

And if you don't believe that, go read your bible. Its all there.

Elena has already explained to you that its rude to bless people who don't share your faith.

Thank you for your excellent demonstration of hypocrisy.

SaneAgian. I will not engage your anger...

Have a good day...

Rs, I hope what you're saying is true. You keep saying you're leaving, and then you come back. If you want to leave, leave. If you don't want to "engage", don't post. Very simple. Three pages later... :!:

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"Rswinters1
SaneAgian. I just checked the dates that we both came to this website. We both came in the same month and year.

I hope you will get to a place where the anger is less for you in this matter.

I have experienced your anger first hand already. So, it will not surprise me if you choose to let me see it agian in your posts.

Your very angry, and that is very obvious.

I will leave this thread alone, and I will post on topic threads what is appropriate for the thread.

I hope the best for your recovery from Quest in your life.

God Bless you.
Rswinters

RS, It's not a competition. There are no deadlines on stages of recovery, and nor on anger. There is nothing wrong with feeling angry, perhaps for a very long time, if not forever. It's not for you to decide what is best for someone else.

You know that I am a person of faith in God RS, and I agree that to conclude with a "God Bless" for someone who has stated their lack of interest in your religion is rather rude. It almost sounds like you are trying to zing Sane while trying to appear above it.

I care about you. The people on this board care about you. But sometimes caring means pointing out some things that may be alienating your allies.

I have tried to be gentle in saying this. I hope I have. Everyone here has been hurt in some way by an LGAT. Let's keep the focus on helping each other.