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"question lady"
Bravo Mr. Rswinters. You seem to be seeing clearly and taking care of yourself. I'm cheering for you.

Thank you very much. Facing this in me is the hardest, and the most alone that I have felt in my life.

Considering that I have always felt on the outside of life, and relationships my whole life.

Facing the emptiness from this infected emotional from my past and how it is still affecting me in how I react to things, and people in my life is very empty.

I have one source that is filling this emptiness. But out of respect for this websites views. I will not go there in sharing how it the one and only thing that is helping me as I face this deep emotional wound within me.

So. Thanks

Hi Rsw, thank you for writing this, and for writing it here. These kinds of things need to be said. I'm not in a position to talk about them so I'm very grateful that you do.

A quest person might jump in here with the claim that being at cause is not blame. This is their exact definition of responsibility (sorry quotes are not working):

"Responsibility starts with the willingness to experience yourself as cause.

Responsibility is not burden, fault, praise, blame, credit, shame or guilt. All these include judgements and evaluations of good and bad, right and wrong or better or worse. They are not responsibility.

Responsibility starts with the willingness to deal with a situation from a point of view, whether at the moment realised or not, that you are the source of what you are, what you do and what you have. This point of view extends to include even what is done to you and ultimately what another does to another.

Ultimately, responsibility is a context - a context of Self as source - for the content ie for what is."

Based on this they say "YOU CAN BE, HAVE OR DO ANYTHING YOU WANT" as long as you accept that you are at cause and you go about "clearing" everything from your kitchen sick to your relationship with people who've passed on already.

And they include in this "having" relationships, its their biggest emphasis. I've also seen quest people make intentions to marry some or other person by a certain time, even if they have no relationship with them at all!

And then they train you to ask yourself, when things are not going right, "how did I create this in my life" and "why am I attracting this into my life". Sometimes they ask nicely and sometimes the trainer SCREAMS that kind of stuff at people... "WHY ARE YOU CREATING THIS????". Very abusive and sick.

Anyway.. such a long quest quote makes me nauseous.. I was planning to rip it apart but I'm out of steam, and maybe its so ridiculous its unnecessary.

But I thought I'd quote it for others who haven't done lgats to see what kind of destructive relationship ideas they teach, and its not Rswinters "misinterpreting", they really teach this.

Here are two stories that I picked up from these boards and elsewhere that show how ridiculous someone being "at cause" of everything is.

That thinking would say that we create our own worlds, we are responsible for what happens in our lives, and we, at all times, have choices to change these things.

The first story goes that when JFK was assassinated, he had a choice, when the bullet struck, to live or die and he chose to die. He didn't have to do that. He was "at cause".

:shock:

The other story goes that all the widows created by 9/11 chose for a group of terrorists to command planes and fly them into the World Trade Center. These women all chose to become widows and they all chose it in the same way. They are "at cause".

:shock:

This "at cause" thinking would suggest that we are all, individually, masters of the universe, able to control all things. But how can that be? Not everyone can be controllers. :!:

Of course, thinking of another instance, those people in World War Two that found themselves in concentration camps were "at cause". Those chose that hell and they were in control of what happened.

I suppose that if they had had enough of the pain and suffering they could have simply walked out of the camps?

Obviously there is a great hole in this theory.

I'm off to find a bucket to throw up into. This twisted, mind control logic makes me sick.

To add something else to this:

Did all of us "omnipotent" people - "at cause" and controlling the world - happen to choose the same things at once, and view them as part of the world we created? We create our own realities, don't we? :shock:

Are we all at exactly the same point of taking charge of our worlds, so that the world we experience is one and the same?

Are we all responsible for the chaos in Iraq, the countless deaths in Darfur, Kenya winning the gold in the men's marathon at the World Athletics Championships yet again, the Indianapolis Colts winning the Super Bowl etc?

Give me a break!

The purveyors of that kind of thinking sound like they belong in mental asylums!

Of course, they are messing with people's mental functioning by using mind control methods, so maybe the place they truly belong, because of this great hoax and the untold damage it has caused so many people is, in fact, a jail cell where they won't be able to hurt others.

After all, it would seem that these LGAT people are a danger to society.

Mauxi said:
"and please note I am not trying to push the seminars I attended on anyone
just commenting on them
thanks"

Matt[/quote]

Mauxi,
I'm just not sure why you feel the need to be continually commenting on the seminars.

It sure sounds to me like you are, if not pushing them, defending them. If they are as great as they are why are so many people on this forum writing how much they hated them, and how much damage they have caused in their lives?

If these seminars are so great the people who run them would not have to push them so hard, and they would not have to use devious means to hook "recruits".

Sane Again,

Thank you for a truly disturbing post. I am still shocked by what I hear about these groups.

It's another example of taking a perfectly good word - 'Responsibility" and twisting it to mean something else entirely. From their definition, the word that comes to mind isn't 'responsibility' but rather 'God-like omnipotence'.

I'm sure the destructive philosphy is embedded strongly when it is presented with covert mind control, but I also see the ideas infiltrating non-LGAT society in 'The Secret' and others. It's a partial truth. I think it's good to ask 'How did i create this in my life?" as long as you distinguish what was within your control from what wasn't.

Oh, and yes the ever popular ban on 'judgment'. We sure wouldn't want to distinguish good from bad or right from wrong. I think an important first step in getting people to distrust themselves and believe this crap is to get them thinking there is something wrong with judging and evaluating in the first place. If you suspend judgment, how will you be able to discern that this is stupid and evil?

I recently heard Ralph Nader say that when he was a boy his father would ask him 'What did you learn at school today? Did they teach you how to believe or did they teach you how to think?" We need more parents like that.

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"Maxui"

*waits to get flamed again*

Maxui,

You came back. The question is why? It seems to me that you thrive on self-inflicted conflict. You bait the hook, then when someone takes you you jump on them with abrasive comments.

Your above comment about waiting to be flamed is obviously an attempt to bait someone into an argument so you can then continue with your negative diatribe? What gives?

oh, and just curious - what does "always already is" mean?

'shad'

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"Maxui"
Not really into being beaten.... physically anyway

this speaks volumes, Maxui: and I must say I am not surprised. YOUR OWN "inference" here is that while you are not "into" being beaten physically, therefore you are saying that you are not adverse to be beaten emotionally/psychologically.

Please correct me if I am wrong. If I am right in reading your comment this way, then in all seriousness I would suggest you get some counselling around this. It may also explain why you keep posting comments here that you know will not be received graciously.

'shad'

[quote="question lady" wrote:

"Oh, and yes the ever popular ban on 'judgment'. We sure wouldn't want to distinguish good from bad or right from wrong. I think an important first step in getting people to distrust themselves and believe this crap is to get them thinking there is something wrong with judging and evaluating in the first place. If you suspend judgment, how will you be able to discern that this is stupid and evil?"

Yes, question lady, great point; this "ban no judgement" is one of my pet peeves. I was watching a rerun of "Judging Amy" (she is a young Judge)while I had my coffed this morning, and the thought finally "jelled".

There is a very important distinction between Making a Judgement, or judging, and "Being Judgemental". BEING judgemental is not a good thing, and usually involves forming an opinion without having all the facts, and often is based on a personal bias. Judging, or making a judgement requires thought, fact collecting, disceminating information etc. It requires discernment and discrimination. It is done with a clear head, and while it may involve some emotionality, emotions do not rule the head.

Thanks for the comment. It is RIGHT ON!

regards,
'shad'