Correction: the Center of Light is in Midrand, other premises in Fourways.

Maxui wrote:

Quote

Self indulgent sicophants feeding off each others misery.

I've seen a lot of attacks from lgat supporters on this site, but this one is particularly vicious. Maybe as Maxui suggested, the severity of damage depends on the training style.

If I may quote Baruch:

[www.insighttc.org]

Quote

[b:4f4f98be0d]Baruch Personal Letter Part 1[/b:4f4f98be0d]

Social transformation is a dream. Transforming an entire country is a wilder dream. I was holding the possibility that is just maybe possible for us through the work in Insight to do just that...And the dream is to transform the way we live our lives in South Africa;[b:4f4f98be0d] to raise the mind level of consciousness to such a degree [/b:4f4f98be0d]

:?:

I cannot tell from the website if Insight in South Africa is related to John-Roger's Insight (MSIA) LGAT. Since there is no mention of John-
Roger that I see, maybe it's a different cult. Anyone know?


Ellen

**URGENT**
Hi everyone, I am a frequent poster on the Impact Trainings thread, a recovering LGAT victim and an ally in the fight against all LGATs.
I am writing this because one of my best friends is a photojournalist and is very interested in doing a story on "how (insert any LGAT here) ruined your life."
If an LGAT ruined your life, you would like a chance to be heard, and you are either in southern California or in northern Utah (sorry I know most of you are in So. Africa) PLEASE PM me today or tommorrow. She needs to write up a proposal first and needs someone to do the story about, but the proposal is due in the next couple days. Please PM me if you have any questions, are interested or know someone who might be interested. Thanks so much![/size:6d891050b4]

I can't find any direct links between MSIA or Insight Training in the US or john-rogers, and Insight Training South Africa. Wendy and Baruch were both originally trained by Pat Grove, another South African who runs lgats, and who seems to be the first to have done so in this country.

If anyone knows where Pat Grove trained that would go a long way to tracing back the origins of both quest and insight - as well as pointing to any possible existing links.

I've enabled my email address in case there is anyone out there who knows but doesn't want to post on the board.

Well, well, well. Dig, and what pops up? Scientology. Pat Grove is a "clear".

Amazon.com has a book review on one of Pat Grove's books on "I Am" training (name of his courses) that says:

[www.amazon.com]

Reader review:

Quote

In 1995 I participated in the Essence training, an ofspring of the I am training.

Pat Grove trained Yiftach Sagiv, founder of Essence Training

Followed that to a Dutch-language page titled "Negative experiences with Essence Trainings" which says:

[www.stelling.nl]

Quote

Pat Grove traint al vanaf 1969 en is te linken aan Scientology & EST/Forum

Which translates roughly into "Pat Grove has been training since 1969 and has connections to Scientology and EST/Forum".

Searching on Pat Grove and Scientology, and it brings up three Scientology Clear Lists, one for 1980 and one for 1985. One lists "Patrick Grove" and the other lists "Pat Grove". Another lists "Pat Grove" getting a "Student Hat" in 1978

[www.truthaboutscientology.com]
[www.truthaboutscientology.com]
[www.truthaboutscientology.com]

So, no wonder Quest uses "clearings" and does auditing by-another-name - and minus the tin cans, of course.

PS the scientology magazine that Pat Grove appeared in in 1978 was the Los Angeles branch.

Does anyone know which lgats or lgat trainers were operating around that time in Los Angeles?


PS this is the editorial review comment on Pat Grove's book:

Quote

"I have participated in all major trainings like est, Lifespring, and Silva Mind Control. Out of all these programs I found the 'i am training' to be the most complete, based in powerful ontology and pertinent in today's world."

Quote
SaneAgain
Well, well, well. Dig, and what pops up? Scientology. Pat Grove is a "clear".

LOLOLOL....

No surprises here!

Good find, SaneAgain. These birds of a feather sure do flock together. ~Clear~ and ~complete~ are pulled right out of L. Ron Hubbard's rotting brain.



Ellen

CORRECTION:

I think i might have posted the wrong address for the Attorney General of British Columbia.

However, no matter where you live I am encouraging everyone who has been damaged/hurt by a LGAT program, no matter which name it goes by, to help me in bringing attention to these unethical and potentially damaging organizations.

Please write to

The Honourable Wally Oppal, Attorney General
Room 232, Parliament Buildings
P.O. Box 9044 Stn. Prov. Govt.
Victoria, British Columbia,
CANADA
V8W 9E2

Remember, when I mentioned Landmark to my Doctor (who is South African) she knew exactly what I was talking about, even though it was who sister who have been exposed to the LGAT program in South Africa.

So please write to the Attonery General of British Columbia, and let him know your experience.

Thanks.
'shad'

Maxui wrote:

"My reason for participating in this forum are two fold.

I was interested to find out why when my experience was very positive others found it extremely damaging.

the other reason was to offer my views on the subject and engage in healthy debate. "

Something interesting I just read, related to this question of why some find have extremely damaging experiences: -

In the Stanford Prison Experiment normal healthy students were put into a fabricated prison setting to study the effects of imprisonment. The students all underwent psychological testing before the experiment to ensure they were within 'normal' ranges and psychologically healthy. They were randomly assigned roles of guard and prisoner. The study was supposed to run for two weeks but was shut down after six days because the guards were being abusive and getting out of control and some of the prisoners were having psychological breakdowns. Half of the prisoners left even before the six days were up because of psychological problems.

One of the psychological tests run before the start of the experiment was "The F-Scale", which is a measure of rigid adherence to conventional values and a submissive, uncritical attitude towards authority. There was no statistically significant difference between the prisoners and guards on this scale, and all fell within psychologically healthy normal ranges.

"However, a fascinating finding emerges when we compare the F-scale scores of the five prisoners who remained for the duration of the study and the five who were released early. Those who endured the authoritarian environment of the SPE scored more than twice (mean = 7.8) as high on conventionality and authoritarianism than their early-released peers (mean = 3.2). Amazingly, when these scores are arranged in rank order from lowest to highest prisoner F-scale values, a highly significant correlation is found with the number of days of staying in the experiment (correlation coefficient = .90). A prisoner was likely to remain longer and adjust more effectively to the authoritarian prison environment to the the extent that he was high in rigidity, adherence to conventional values, and acceptance of authority - the features which characterised our prison setting. To the contrary, the prisoners who handled the pressures least well were the young men who were lowest on these F-Scale traits - which some would say are to their credit."

- The Lucifer Effect by Philip Zimbardo, pg 198.


I think this applies to Quest very well. Quest is an extremely authoritarian environment with very rigid rules. The values may not be perfectly conventional but within the context where the entire peer group comes to accept the values, they become conventional.

To me if there are ANY indicators of why some have negative experiences in LGATs and others don't, this is surely one of them.

Help - Why does BB code show as OFF on this thread only, when my profile setting is ON?

*sigh* the cool icon is supposed to be a 7.3.