Ghost Dancer:

My apologies. I did not mean to offend you. You made it very clear you do not want me to say anything about your family so I won't. Being a Dad myself and having also a beautiful family I respect that profoundly.

I don't think you are nuts. I even agree on many of the things you said. However fair opinions can only be made when you give both sides of the story a chance.

You are telling me PSI's negative impact on your wife and I believe you (why wouldn't I?). I tell you the positive one on me and my wife who by the way did not leave me. Our family is working better. I only ask you to believe that.

My Company did not "send" me or any of its employees. It simply offered to share the cost of PSI Basic to some of its employees on a first come first serve basis. It did hosted a PSI internal presentation but it was not mandatory. Only one email was sent to announce it.

It took me a year to decide to go to the second seminar (PSI 7) so I did give it a thought.

I am not a "member" of PSI.

PSI does not call me or tries to keep me "a member"

I do not have any "PSI friends" really and I have not continued seeing any one I've met there after the seminar

Please don't be mad at me. I repeat I do not think you are nuts. I see your anger and I would like to help you.

If you would like to continue the correspondence with me just let me know. Otherwise it seems you'd prefer me to leave you alone and so I'll do.

Kind regards,

EFE132

Efe 132,

I do not understand? Why say something like “I don’t think you are nuts?” I reread my letter and no where (at least as I can see) did I say I was nuts, and/or going crazy. I said I am stressed out with the fear that something is going to happen to my family because of my wife’s involvement with PSI. I am not angry at you. I am angry that your response gives no thought for what I, or my daughters, are going through. You say you even agree with many of the things I said. If that is true why are you placing you family in the position to decide what’s more important to them? You or PSI? You said your wife attended PSI; that’s great. But have you considered the possibility if she had simply said “no, I’m not going to go.” Do you think you would feel the same? Would you see this as her being unsupportive?

You say your company is not associated with PSI. Your letter does not support this. Why would your company offer to pay for a portion of the Basic if someone inside your organization was not associated with PSI? You said PSI hosted an “internal presentation” with your company. How do you think they get more customers to sign up for these seminars? I read where these groups offer their first seminar for free; these people take the courses and of course recruit family and friends to take the courses knowing they are going to get money for the courses over time. Please don’t kid yourself that it was free. You attended the basic at a reduced rate and ended up buying the advanced course (PSI7). Therefore they made money off you. You recruited your wife; therefore they got your money again. If she attends the other courses they make more money. I would bet that once you come back from 7 you’ll have spent another $4000.00 dollars to attend their leadership program. This is not rocket science. I am sorry but you need to consider the fact that there is a STRONG possibly that you have been BRAINWASHED. Brainwashed just like my wife.

As for the rest; please answer the questions I posed last week. Why would your wife need to do the basic before you attend PSI7? Why does she need to take the basic? Will you marriage survive if she doesn’t?

What do you mean by “Do you see it coming yet?”

Why do I need to experience this first hand? Why do I need to be exposed to a group of strangers? Why would I spend $3000.00 to go to an old dude ranch in California and do yard work in a bathing suit and work gloves? Why do I need to attend a barn dance? Why do I need to walk across hot coals? Climb phone poles, go over walls, and stand on the edge of a cliff? What does this do for you?

What value does PSI offer me, or anyone for that matter? Did you check the references for PSI before you attended the seminar, or did you just take someone’s word that this was a good course for you to take?

Please answer the questions. If you thought enough to register to respond to my first post you must have more thoughts other than “take the basic” and there are two sides to every story. I have looked at both sides and I don’t like what I see. That is again “my choice.” As for corresponding with you or anyone else that wants to sell me on PSI, please save your breath. I have enough problems on my hands with my wife.

Ghost Dancer,

I am going to assume that you are ok with me answering you as long as I do not suggest you go a PSI seminar so I’ll commit to that.

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Ghost Dancer
Why say something like “I don’t think you are nuts?”

I did not express myself very well there. You seem to believe that now that I’ve attended a PSI seminar, PSI is to me the only truth and everyone against it is crazy. That is not the case

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Ghost Dancer
I am not angry at you. I am angry that your response gives no thought for what I, or my daughters, are going through.

I think I did give some thoughts but let me try again. I know I am sometimes confusing.
If a person moves away from her/his partner there are basically two ways to get them back together. Either she or he comes back or you go get her. Go wherever she went, physically and/or mentally. Stop telling her that what she is doing is wrong. Keep your mind cool knowing that you won’t be persuaded to do anything related to PSI. Don’t tell her straight away that she must stop buying seminars from PSI. Tell her how much you love her and show it to her by listening without lecturing her. Propose her a consensus plan in which she needs to show you and your daughters the improvement before even thinking about buying a new seminar. After all it is not “her” money; it is the family’s money. And calm down. When she explains how she had improved give her explanations a chance. Maybe some will make sense to you. And not because of that it means I want you to go buy a PSI seminar. I just say see if she got something positive out of it. What worked for her doesn’t necessarily means it has to work for you.

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Ghost Dancer
You say you even agree with many of the things I said. If that is true why are you placing you family in the position to decide what’s more important to them? You or PSI?

I am not sure where you got this idea but I am not putting my family to decide between me and PSI. We are very united and all the important decisions are taken together.

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Ghost Dancer
You said your wife attended PSI; that’s great. But have you considered the possibility if she had simply said “no, I’m not going to go.” Do you think you would feel the same?

I highly doubt I would have even done PSI basic if she would have not agreed. As I said we make all our important decisions together and even the reduced price I paid for the Basic was an expense we discussed and agreed before I made it.

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Ghost Dancer
Would you see this as her being unsupportive?

Hard to say when it did not happen… maybe. Why?

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Ghost Dancer
You say your company is not associated with PSI. Your letter does not support this. Why would your company offer to pay for a portion of the Basic if someone inside your organization was not associated with PSI?

Associated is way too much to say. Yes, some managers took the seminars first and saw value in them to the point they thought a good idea to offer it to other employees. Among the people in the company who took the basic there are those who went ahead and took all the other seminars, some who took 1 or 2 more and those who took nothing else. None of the ones I’ve talked to believe they’ve wasted their money. I know you do so I won’t argue that with you.

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Ghost Dancer
You said PSI hosted an “internal presentation” with your company. How do you think they get more customers to sign up for these seminars? I read where these groups offer their first seminar for free; these people take the courses and of course recruit family and friends to take the courses knowing they are going to get money for the courses over time. Please don’t kid yourself that it was free. You attended the basic at a reduced rate and ended up buying the advanced course (PSI7). Therefore they made money off you. You recruited your wife; therefore they got your money again. If she attends the other courses they make more money.

So? They are running a business and this is the best way they’ve found to sell their product. It is not a secret, even they tell you that is what they are doing.

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Ghost Dancer
I would bet that once you come back from 7 you’ll have spent another $4000.00 dollars to attend their leadership program.

I would bet I won’t but I’ll tell you when I come back.

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Ghost Dancer
This is not rocket science. I am sorry but you need to consider the fact that there is a STRONG possibly that you have been BRAINWASHED. Brainwashed just like my wife.

I have considered it and as I said before I did not signed up for the next seminar until after a year of having taken the basic. I saw and I am still seeing the results. I know exactly what part of the seminar helped me where. It was not until having analyzed all this that I decided to enroll in PSI7. I was not brainwashed although I was pushed to buy and I did not like it. That is why I took my time, to decide by myself.

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Ghost Dancer
As for the rest; please answer the questions I posed last week. Why would your wife need to do the basic before you attend PSI7? Why does she need to take the basic?

Because we are a team and important things like this we do together. Because if she would have said this is a waste I would not have signed up for PSI7. I have my feet on the ground; I know what the most important thing in my life is. Same as yours: my family.

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Ghost Dancer
Will you marriage survive if she doesn’t?

Of course. But I don’t just want it to survive I want it to be the best marriage ever. Is PSI the only way to improve a marriage? Hell NO! But it is the one we found, it’s great and we are decided to get the most out of it. We are already doing so, so much better. Again, what works for one person might not work for the next one. That is just our experience.

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Ghost Dancer
What do you mean by “Do you see it coming yet?”

It was because right after that I suggested you to take the basic and I thought you saw that coming. That’s it.

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Ghost Dancer
Why do I need to experience this first hand?

This is just to answer your question. You told me not to tell you again to do the basic and I won’t.
It would be a good way to show your wife that even when you don’t agree with her you are ready to give it a chance just because she thinks it worth it and you love her. If your wife is telling you that you don’t understand because you haven’t been there then once you have been there that argument will be gone. You’ll be able to tell her what and why you think is BS. And if there is something you agree with then take advantage of it. You seem pretty prepared to me for not letting them sell you anything else so I would not worry about that. Then after completing the basic tell them you didn’t like it and they’ll refund all but $50 of your money.

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Ghost Dancer
Why do I need to be exposed to a group of strangers? Why would I spend $3000.00 to go to an old dude ranch in California and do yard work in a bathing suit and work gloves? Why do I need to attend a barn dance? Why do I need to walk across hot coals? Climb phone poles, go over walls, and stand on the edge of a cliff? What does this do for you?

Mindlessly doing all that out of context will do nothing for you. Some of the things you mention are part of exercises that put in the right context have the goal to teach you tools to help you resolve stressing and challenging situations in life in a positive way. All the exercises are done keeping everyone safe. Nobody is obligated to do an exercise if he/she does not want to. I for instance didn’t dance there even though I love dancing.

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Ghost Dancer
What value does PSI offer me, or anyone for that matter?

I think I’ve already given you my opinion on the matter.

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Ghost Dancer
Did you check the references for PSI before you attended the seminar, or did you just take someone’s word that this was a good course for you to take?

I did. The company I work for was the most important reference. I believe the good references I got were accurate. The bad ones not so much.

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Ghost Dancer
Please answer the questions. If you thought enough to register to respond to my first post you must have more thoughts other than “take the basic” and there are two sides to every story. I have looked at both sides and I don’t like what I see. That is again “my choice.” As for corresponding with you or anyone else that wants to sell me on PSI, please save your breath. I have enough problems on my hands with my wife.

How many good references have you heard other than your wife’s?
I do not sell PSI seminars as I do not get a penny from them. It was a suggestion I won’t repeat to you.

Let me know if you want me to answer more questions. If it helps you I will be glad to do so.

Efe132,

Again you are assuming too much. And yes “you” are confused. I don’t know how to put your statements into quotes so I’ll have to make do with a straight narrative. I understand that a person can “move” away from his/her partner and he/she has a choice to come back or you can go get he/she. I am not telling my wife she is wrong and I don’t understand why you believe that I was telling her she was wrong. I do however have to tell her that she can’t spend anymore money on these seminars. WE DON”T HAVE THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!! You apparently miss the part where she returned and quit her job for no apparent reason. She still can’t tell me why other than she didn’t feel right. Now the funny thing is she was happy with her job prior to going to PSI and she can’t explain what has changed.

As for your statement that I should tell her that I love her; I do tell her that I love her. I show it in my thoughts and actions everyday. You implied that I should ‘show it to her by listening without lecturing her.” Well you need to understand something; she is talking but what she is saying makes no sense to me. How do I get my point across to her, and for that matter to you, that you both have been influenced by a cult? “Propose a consensus” where she shows my daughters and me how she has improved? This is not an improvement and she will not be “buying” any more seminars. I have explained this to her several times and she fails to get the point. The point being I don’t want her going and getting further enmeshed in this bullshit and WASTING our money. You're telling me that spending over $8000.00 dollars on these seminars in less than three months is normal? And don’t tell me to calm down. I am very upset about all this and I am not the only one. She has tried to recruit members of my family and our friends to take this crap and I am trying to explain to her, and to you, that people are not interested in these seminars. People are asking me what is wrong with her. How would you answer? Do I tell them she moved to the “white light and workshops?” And to be honest I am embarrassed. I’m embarrassed for myself, my wife and my children. You should see some of the looks I’ve been getting lately.

As for her explaining how these seminars have improved her she has no explanation so how can I understand them. I understand her no more than I understand you. You sound just like her and I see nothing positive from all of this. She has turned my family upside down. I do not see any improvements.

Your statement about highly doubting you would have done the basic if your wife had not agreed. I didn’t agree to my wife taking these seminars. She told me it was some type of class recommended by a friend. Which brings me to another point: Her friend, the one who recruited her, also left her husband after her return from PSI7. Are you beginning to see a pattern here? I’ve known these people for the past five years and not once did I see any indication that they were headed for a break up.

In regards to your reference to work. You said some managers took the seminars first and saw value in them to the point they thought it was a good idea to offer it to other employees. This is how they recruit new people to take the seminars. And of course no one would tell you that they thought they wasted their money. Would you want to admit you have been conned? I’d be embarrassed. “It is not a secret; even they tell you what they are doing?” Sure they do, that’s why they tell you not to expose what they do at these seminars so it’s a surprise to the new recruits.

As for having your feet on the ground, I believe this is not an accurate statement. You seem to have your head in the “white lights and workshops.” You lead me to believe you have already taken PSI7 and you’re stringing me along.

As for your statement “It would be good to show your wife that even when you don’t agree with her you are ready to give it a chance just because she thinks it worth it and you love her.” Where do you get off telling me that I need to show my wife that I love her? I have loved her for the past 21 years. I would die for her and my daughters. And to have you tell me that she needs to see me take a chance with this to show what she should already know is asinine.

As for your statement that PSI gives you the “tools” to help resolve stressing and challenging situations in a positive way.” Again where do you get off saying that to me? I have gone through life and faced many challenging situations and faced them head on and in a positive manner. I wouldn’t have half of what I do if I hadn’t and your statement just shows me that you are completely involved with this group.

I also think you need to start investigating the group your in. Read the other message boards here on Rickross.com. Some of these people have stories to tell and you fail to heed anything they have said, much like you’re doing to me. You discount everything I have posted here and continue to tout the “benefits” of PSI. I don’t see benefits of PSI. I see a con game taking advantage of unsuspecting people and relieving of their money. As one poster said, I am paraphrasing “you have been mindf*ked by PSI and you paid them for the privilege.”

And the fact that you keep insisting that you are not trying to sell me on taking PSI. You have, more than once, said what do I have to lose? If I take the basic and don’t like it I can get a refund except for fifty dollars. Ok. I have a proposition for you. I’ll take the basic and you can pay for it. What do you have to lose? You can pay; I’ll go, come back say I hate it and you’ll get your money back, except for the fifty dollars. If I do like it you can always say you added, or “enrolled’ one more mindless robot to the PSI machine.

efe132, I posted two articles I found on the net and pasted them below.


Flirtation with the Cult/LGAT
So I recently attended a recruitment meeting for an LGAT- a Large Group Awareness Training. These cult-like groups don't really have a compound and make you live there; they are mostly about getting your money by charging you absurdly huge amounts of money for seminars that use some very shady tactics.

I had presented a speech the night before at my school, discussing the ways that cults and LGATs hook people and their similarities to hypnotic techniques.
So I went the next night to actually observe what went on and see what happens. Here's the story:

The first thing was that I signed in to a table outside the hotel ballroom. Several of the seminar leaders were standing by, dressed immaculately. I approached one, smiled, and signed in and was given a name tag. The man recognized my name (I had been emailing him) and introduced himself, asking who had brought me. I told him nobody.

Tonight's event was the "Graduation" from the initial seminar, which had taken place over 4 days and cost a shade under $500. To celebrate the graduates, all the participants who'd made it through the four days were invited to bring their friends and family along. As the crowd mingled, the grads and guests mingled and chatted with Seminar employees who strolled around, making introductions.

None of them attempted to talk to me- the lone guy ambling around, talking on my cell phone periodically, taking notes here and there.

Finally we were let inside to the ballroom where the meeting was being held. We took our seats. Some seminar people went around the room, still talking to people, working the room.

The man I'd been emailing came to the front, introduced himself, proudly pointed out the grads, and asked us all to give a big hand to celebrate their achievement. I glanced around the room- the grads all looked so excited, so happy, but it was nothing next to when the speaker introduced the man who'd actually led the entire seminar.
When he came bounding up on stage and took the mike, the grads went wild. It was spooky- it was like Elvis inciting a flock of girls. The grads even gave him a standing ovation, and, as he spoke for the next hour or so, the grads' glee didn't diminish- they kept giggling in bliss and ecstasy.

The moderator spoke at length, again congratulating the grads, at first admitting a couple of things- first off, how odd this must all seem to the guests. "You get BEGGED to come to this by your friends or family, and now you're here, hearing all this, right?" Pretty much.
"And you must think its kinda weird, right? They're telling you 'You gotta come to this! BUT- I can't tell you what it's about!" The grad next to me giggled. "Well, let me tell you: it's not a cult. No. We're here to help you, to get you to achieve your full potential…." He went on; talking about what the course could do for you, but in very vague terms. "Nobody's forcing you to attend, right? We're all here on our own free will, are we not? We all have the choice to accept or decline." I nodded, but my stomach was turning. This is exactly the 'illusion of choice' that a cult would present.

The moderator went on to tell a little about the seminar, but even he admitted it was hard to put into concrete terms- that it was really something that must be experienced, because there were so many group exercises; that it was very 'experiential.' I wanted to hear more about this, to find out what the exercises were like, but he would only say it was like a taste of steak; that the only way to see it was to actually go through with it.
One of the more disturbing moments was when he presented a 'theory of mind' on the board to illustrate how our minds work. It bothered me because it was similar to part of the hypnotic induction process in how you describe the workings of the mind and how hypnosis works, just before you actually perform it. Basically, 'you first describe, and then you perform.' He prattled on about it, and I nodded my head, pretending to be intrigued instead of horrified.
He next had all the grads come up on stage as we applauded them. The mod continued heaping all the adulation and praise onto him that he could, recognizing them for being on the pathway to success and overcoming their personal limitations. He gave them diplomas and read them on stage, which pretty much just reinforced or repeated what he'd said a minute ago. Then he asked the grinning grads to tell us all about how much they loved the program and their experience, to tell us how great it was. "Just try to sum it up in one word," he challenged them.
They thought a moment and then you heard them say things like "enlightening", "success", "learning", "magical", etc.
Now came another creepy highlight.
"And how many of you had resistance at first, when you came in here, all but kicking and screaming, at the start of the first day?"
Almost all raised their hand. "How about at the end of the first day?" Most hands stayed up. "And the second day?" About half the hands were still up. "How about the third day?"
ONE hand remained in the air.
Jesus Christ, I thought. This is how it works- the first two days are spent in long exercises designed to break, embarrass, or humiliate these people, and the second two days are about building them back up.
It was pretty insidious. One thing a cult or LGAT would do is shower the individual with love and acceptance. But this group went one better- start with ridiculing them or tearing them down. It actually makes sense- in one hypnotic induction, we create relaxation by first inducing some stress, and when that's absent, the relaxation is more powerfully felt. And likewise, how best to show love and acceptance? By first creating its opposite experience….

But why would nobody walk off after the first few hours of abuse? Simple; they've heard the promise of personal benefit if you stay in for the full four days; plus, you're not eligible to get your money back for any reason if you don't complete the course in full.
After this, the moderator showed the schedule for the next seminar (four days- 2 days of 6pm to midnight, and 2 days of 10am-8pm) and presented the cost and where we could sign up, also saying if we had any doubts, just ask around tonight, and to take it, since we could always get our money back if we were dissatisfied (provided we completed, of course). He closed by suggesting we now turn to the person who brought us here and ask them why they so badly wanted us to take this seminar.
I turned to the man next to me, "A", I'll call him, and began asking questions. I talked to him for a while, learning that a friend had gotten him into this almost a year ago. At first he had declined but I guess the friend had badgered him enough and he finally took it. I also learned he was new in town and I wondered why he'd waited till he'd moved to take it, but didn't ask him.

He told me that he'd always been into reading about religions, philosophy, self improvement, and the like. Off the bat, he also admitted that this seminar was like a religion and wasn't- it was definitely an organization, and they were out to make money, plain and simple. That said, he felt like it benefited him quite a lot anyways.
I moved on to my next question. "I understand this stuff is a lot of group exercises; that you learn a lot in there."
"Oh, yes, definitely," he nodded vigorously.
"But what was it like? What did you guys do?"
He looked blankly, as if he'd lost his train of thought, finally saying. "It's hard to describe. We did so many…” and trailed off- it was as if he couldn't remember any! Why couldn't these people describe what had gone on? It wasn't like they were being coy or secretive about it; it's more like they just couldn't retrieve the memory!
He finally told me an odd one about the inner child or intuition, being in groups of 2, where one person describes a sick friend, giving somebody a few clues, asking them to come up w/ whatever they intuit about the described person. "A" claimed 90% accuracy rate in the facts the intuition drags up and looked at me, wide-eyed, for my reaction. I saw through this (vague-speak, like an Oracle; can be interpreted so widely that it could apply to nearly anything) but he was amazed by it. I feigned amazement, too.
"What else did you guys do?"
I really had to pry it out of him- you'd think in four days of doing mainly exercises, he'd be able to remember much more, more readily, but no. Finally he came up with another, and it was sad.
I'd had heard of this one before: the "broke your word" thing, designed to make everybody see their flaws and play that up. "A" described how he seemed to have done the best, seeming to have kept his word the most faithfully, for a full week, until the mod turned it on him, saying he didn't believe it; either A had lied to him, or A had broken his word to himself. When confronted with that, A said he felt shocked, and reacted in an astonished manner, as if he were still stunned by it. He even described hearing that as a "slap in the face." Of course, this same point was driven in, in many ways, to all the graduates in those first 2 days.
At end of our conversation, I asked if he had any last things to tell me about it, and he advised me to "take the jump" and just try it out. He thought I'd get a lot out of it, that I was curious and smart. He hoped it would help him succeed farther, especially to get over his shyness, loner tendencies, and to help him become a leader- after all, he'd signed up for the next 2 courses, which probably cost $6,000 to $8,000.
I kind of wanted to hear more about this and track his progress, so I exchanged phone numbers with him and left, wondering what I'd hear next. As I stood up to go, I noticed nobody ever asked me directly to sign up, which was kind of a nice sign, but then again, when I looked around, I saw all the seminar people were busy talking to the grads and their guests.

So what hypnotic techniques and methods did I observe? I'll detail them in the next blog.
Oh- and if you don't think these people are out to take your money, if you really think they're beneficial- I just have one question for you:
If this group does so much good, and there's nothing sinister or shady about their method, and that it really WILL change you life, well, why can nobody who goes through the program seem to be able to tell many details of it?

Surely something so important, so groundbreaking in one's life would be a bit more memorable, wouldn't it?

How the Cult Works: Hypnotic Secrets
So here's my expose on how and why the group worked:
One of the really ingenious tactics they used was not to use any kind of promotion except for the very best of all: word of mouth. Everybody knows how strong word-of-mouth is, and anybody can tell you that's going to beat any paid advertisement. But these people went a step further- they had instilled it into their grads that they absolutely HAD to share this path to success with whoever they loved and cared most about.
I thought that was pretty smart. Just think: if your closest friends and most beloved family members came begging you to do something, you'd surely listen to them and consider it over just about any other source in the world, wouldn't you? I mean, what if it was your parents? Your wife or husband? And that's exactly what I saw. One woman even brought her 8 year old daughter.
As further proof that the seminar leaders found this angle to be absolutely critical, remember that nobody approached me before the meeting to give me a friendly hello. Why? Because I'd come alone- they had no convenient grad to use as an opportunity to springboard through to me. No, they concentrated on talking to the grads and getting through to THEIR guests. They knew full well that those people were the ones to work on, because they already had a very solid 'in'. Remember also that the lead guy took notice of me when I signed on and his first question was to ask who brought me.
The Moderator: He was definitely 'built up' in the grads' mind as an authority figure; unquestioned, blindly accepted, and acknowledged as somebody who had total control and commanded total admiration of the group. Again, it was creepy to see the unabashed adulation for the guy- standing ovations, big vacant smiles and laughs at whatever he said.
The moderator was also quite smart early on in his speech to disavow that the group was a cult or that it was shady, all the while acknowledging it was mysterious, wasn't it? In hypnosis, one great tactic is basically to acknowledge whatever the client says; all the while you lead them in the direction you want. He also made sure to let everybody know that they had a choice to say yes or no to this, but to request that you at least give a chance and listen with an open mind. Doing this puts the guests at ease and calms them, as well as creates an "illusion of choice." If you believe you have a choice, it relieves the pressure and you remove your mental blocks and defenses to whatever you're about to hear.
Also, this talk was similar to our hypnotic pre-induction speech, in which we give to tell the client what is going to happen, what to expect, and demystify the process, etc.
Most of the talk was quite vague and nebulous- the moderator almost never gave concrete ideas or facts, but rather couched everything in metaphoric and indistinct terms- these is completely the language of trance, especially that method practiced by Milton Erickson, who could basically hypnotize somebody without them really being aware of how it was working. The way it works is that the mind of the subject is distracted, trying to address and make sense of the vagueness, while the speaker continues, throwing out more stuff, slowly overwhelming the subject's critical mind and thought processes, until they just want to escape, which they do- into hyper suggestibility and hypnosis.
The Theory of Mind diagram was more of the same- misdirection, vagueness, and giving an explanation of how the mind works. Again, we do something almost identical in hypnosis. It's part of the standard process.
Bringing Up the Grads: This was just more of the adulation and praise and attention lavished on those who succeed in the group's terms. If they deviate or fail, they are punished, ridiculed, but once they make it through, they are accepted and rewarded by the group. These people who did stick it through probably have some issues on where they belong, or are looking for a place or group to have an identity with (In fact, the man I'd later talk to would tell me as much, saying that he was new in town, didn't have any friends, and was sort of lonely. I also thought it was curious he waited for a year to take the class, it was as if he had come at a more vulnerable time).
Also, with this praise/reward, it becomes even more powerful when it's contrasted against earlier punishment methods- again, what better way to make somebody feel loved or appreciated than to first put them down?
RESISTANCE: The major creepy moment. In the first two days, the grads admitted resistance to the group's exercises, but almost none for the 2nd two days. This suggests that the first couple days were completely about breaking down the grads, showing them they were insignificant, wrong, and fundamentally incorrect and deeply flawed. Of COURSE there would be resistance to that. Incidentally, in almost ANY hypnosis, there is resistance of some sort, even for very positive therapy, because the subconscious is grappling with suggestions for change and there's a consequent struggle as it grapples with integrating the hypnotherapist's suggestions. And hypnotherapists actually take resistance as a positive sign, because it means that the course of therapy is working....
So 'resistance' means that the lessons are sinking into the grads, and after two day's worth of these exercises they're open to all sorts of things, reflecting sadly over this deeply vulnerable self that has been exposed and open. They go home, probably feeling broken and beaten down. But there's not much time to reflect on that and think too critically about it, because after the second day ends (at midnight), they're back at 10am the next day for another round. So they have just enough time to sleep before they return- this limits the chance they have to think too much about it and try to get out of the seminar, which they probably won't, because they can't get a refund unless they tough it out for the full four days. So they reluctantly trudge back to the group, likely expecting more abuse and breaking-down exercises.
But when they come back, there's a change: the group is using a new tactic! Now, they're focusing on acceptance, more positive things, likely telling them that they can change and have all they could ever want if they take the next courses and learn more what the group has to offer. And that day and the next are devoted to showing them acceptance and love, as well as heavily pitching their higher levels of courses.
In fact, I'd suspect that the group doesn't really impart much, if any, lessons for success in the first seminar. I bet, as the first session in hypnosis is really to condition the subject for more hypnosis, that the group is really just priming the individual client for more and more sessions and seminars.
Another thing that contributed to breaking down the individual's willpower and opening their suggestibility was the long hours. There are many ways to go into trance; the best known of which are things like dancing, chanting, singing (which I heard there was singing going on at these), and doing this for long periods of time. However, a lesser-known way of increasing suggestibility is by controlling the diet. Not just by fasting, but by affecting the blood sugar levels, by not eating, or eating too much. If you control the diet (which seems likely, since the first two days were held during typical dinner hours), you could affect blood sugar, making it drop and creating a subtle anxious, hyper suggestible state in your subjects.
That said, when all was said and done by the 4th day, they had created 30 people who had 'learned' that this group was the key to success and changing their lives, and were also told to share this wondrous revelation with all the loved ones in their lives. This was reinforced again after the moderator finished talking and suggested that we turn to the people who brought us and ask them why they wanted us to take the class so badly. Again, they're using the power of word of mouth (from loved and trusted friends and family) to convince and tantalize the guests, so they can continue the cycle.
So there you have it- of course, many different walks of life use these methods, but before you dismiss it, you have to admit that when a group is using all sorts of hypnotic manipulation tactics, whether or not they intend to, then they consequently must be practicing hypnotic manipulation, whether they intend to or not.
I think I've made a pretty strong case that's what this group is obviously doing and using that leverage for the sole purpose of making a lot of money from their seminars.
Oh, and here's another bit of evidence why I doubt their sincerity: Part of their name/motto is about people working synergistically together. You'd think with a focus like that, what better synergy could you get than a couple of their grads partnering up? Or better yet, a big group of them networking within each other, buttressing and backing each other up? What a strong, powerful bond, right?
But when I asked "A" if he was going to stay in touch with his fellow grads, who we had just been hearing had some sort of collective epiphany all together, he reacted like the thought had never really occurred to him. "Hm, I guess so, that might be good," he said hesitatingly.

Quote
Ghost Dancer

As for your statement that I should tell her that I love her; I do tell her that I love her. I show it in my thoughts and actions everyday. You implied that I should ‘show it to her by listening without lecturing her.” Well you need to understand something; she is talking but what she is saying makes no sense to me. How do I get my point across to her, and for that matter to you, that you both have been influenced by a cult? .

Dear Ghost Dancer,

I am so sorry you are going through this. My husband got involved with a different group but I can really relate to what you are describing.

Likely, part of your wife has temporarily lost her ability to think for herself. You probably will not be able to "get your point across" to her. Try to, very gently, help her think things through herself.

It is evident that you do love your wife very much. I love my husband very much, yet I am sure that in my frustration and feeling powerless to get through to him, I sometimes didn't seem very loving. This is especially true when the mind-control group is "love-bombing." I learned that my husband interpreted my criticism of the group, as criticism of him.

You might want to check out some links I found very helpful in learning how to deal with the situation. See my April 2, 2007 post under Sedona Method and Release Technique. When I changed my approach, it helped enormously.

I feel for you, and wish you well.

efe132, just for your information Willhite died in the late 80's from an airplane crash and the ranch he bought at Clearwater Oaks became the central arena for P.S.I. work, continued by his widow Jane Willhite. It should be mentioned that there is an aura of 'mystery' surrounding the higher levels of training, with certain symbolic distinctions, the biggest being that of the eagle – as the eagle 'never gives up' and will dive for a fish one hundred times (etc) – and those who have completed the $4000 MLS /WLS (men / women's leadership seminars, which comes after PSI-7) receive a gold ring with an eagle's head as a mark of their education. Also, while at the Ranch one can see 'the house' where Jane Willhite lives upon a high ridge and I remember a staff member recounting how she was invited to visit... anyway, the seven-day course was fairly intensive, with a day devoted to ropes-course activities, but my overall impression was fatally marred when, later into the week, one of the facilitators asked "what are you doing here? You have the tools (e.g. the Basic) to control your life" – I found that profound in the sense that it seemed as if I wasn't learning anything really beyond from what I'd initially invested; P.S.I.-7, the 'necessary' course, seemed like a rehash when it was all said and done. $3000 can motivate a lot of justification, and in some ways I still feel the experience was worth it – I met and exchanged information with a number of interesting individuals, had the opportunity (as with the Basic) to have my own "poor-me" bullshit contrasted by people who had truly suffered greatly in their time (Child abuse victims etc) and were getting an enormous amount of catharsis from PSI's techniques. Also, I was recruited to raise $3000 dollars in the course of the week so our class (#300) could have an eagle-plaque on the Ranch's 'wall of fame'. I, who had money programs to begin with and hadn't managed to raise any money for this education from graduates, managed to succeed in this task ("suggested" by another and quickly assumed by all to be on my shoulders). True, I was working in an environment of high suggestibility – using P.S.I.'s business tactics to benefit P.S.I. and, by extension, the 60-odd people in my class – but this 'breakthrough' I count as valuable in the long run, if nothing else than as an interesting examination on how people can be influenced to reach for the checkbook.

I have to ask. Have gotten the EAGLE ring yet?

Ghost Dancer,

You ask me questions but then you do not believe what I say. Not even what I tell you about me and my family. You are obviously angry at me which shows in the rude language you use at times. I've been respectfully addressing you nonetheless because I honestly would like to help you. I do not insist about PSI to anyone who tells me "NO". Not to you not to any of my friends and most certainly not to my wife. You've shown you do not believe that is the case. For all these reasons I am going to stop this conversation with you.
I thank you for the blog you copied. It did told me about things I did not know. However no blog or talk will change the areas in which I have improved and the direct relationship that exists with the lessons I've learned at the PSI basic seminar.

To quote someone else's lines click on the "Quote" button at the top right corner of his/her message. That will put the whole thing in one big quote. You'll see then that to do that it puts an opening string at the beginning and a closing one at the end. Something like this but with [ and ] instead of { and } (if I use the true characters it would show up as actual quote and you would not be able to see the opening and closing strings)

{quote="Ghost Dancer"}This is the text of the quote{/quote}

If you want to quote in parts as I did just use these opening and closing strings as needed in between the text.

Needles to say it is very easy to misquote someone. Please review my message you'll see I have not done so with what you wrote.

I truly wish you the best of luck

Steve,

Thank you for your post. No Eagle yet. Just the Basic.

To whom it may concern:

PSI appears to be "mass marathon training" or large group awareness training (LGAT).

See [www.culteducation.com]

This is a research document with warnings about such training.

[b:0e6834181a]There are 13 liabilities cited regarding such groups:[/b:0e6834181a]

They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.

They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.

They lack clearly defined responsibility.

They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.

They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.

They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.

They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.

They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.

They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.

They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.

They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.

They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.

They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.

[b:0e6834181a]The groups were determined to be dangerous when:[/b:0e6834181a]

Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.

Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.

Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.

Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."