Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: Lil ()
Date: December 22, 2003 11:53PM

Admittedly I had been having a bit of a tough time in recent months and was needing a bit of an energy boost - so I signed up for the Forum in London at the recommendation of a friend. Of course, I now realise that only people who are having problems sign up for the Forum - if you are feeling great you wouldn't be "looking" would you?

However, what I got was a very hard kick indeed.

I was a bit sceptical, but made the conscious decision to attend with an open heart and mind and take everything I could. I really wanted to be "coached" and really wanted "transformation". In reality what I got was a load of regurgitated philosophies and mechanisms for modern living that are available in many other formats - nearly all of which are MUCH kinder to the recipient.

When I challenged the leader on a point, she annihilated me by calling me arrogant, a bitch and then telling me that there was poison in my family. I was utterly ruined and devastated. Thankfully my parents were on holiday so I couldn't call them - they too would have been devastated and hurt badly if I had told them that a total stranger had decided within 20 minutes of talking to me that there was poison in my family. I called my friends (thankfully I have some good friends who are psychotherapy professionals and well-educated in psychology, therapy, philosophy and psycho-analysis) they were each very shocked at what I was telling them was happening to me on day 2 of the course. They were desperate for me to walk away but I was too afraid of getting of the "roller-coaster". I really felt that I would be even more damaged if I got off too soon.

I could write an diatribe! But the point is... Since I finished the weekend I have been obsessed. I'm constantly searching the internet for other peoples viewpoints. I need to validate my own feelings that the course is dangerous to some people and that I am right. Instead, I feel low, my self-esteem is shattered and I've never felt so confused. I keep thinking "what's wrong with me? Why didn't I get it? What did she see in me that made her think I was a bitch?".

I was maddened by an article in last Sunday's Observer Newspaper by a woman who claimed to went on the Forum to expose it, but instead, she fell for it! I really wanted to write to her, but simply couldn't control my thoughts enough to write cohesively without ranting. I'm normally a very calm and reasoned person, but that's all gone right ouf the window. I am so wound up that I don’t even understanding myself!

Please don't tell me she was right and that it must be my problem and the reason I'm so disturbed is that she's obviously hit a raw note - she hasn't - my family are wonderful and the most kind and supportive people anyone could hope to meet. I am also the least bitch-like person I know - so why I can't just ignore the Forum and put it behind me? I suppose I just don't want them to keep getting away with it and I feel helpless.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm desperate for people who've been through the experience to know.


Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: December 23, 2003 01:56AM


You are not alone. I've been through exactly what you are describing. Two years later, my marriage, which nearly broke up back then, is still on the rocks.

This is a web page I found that lists all the completely NORMAL effects of destructive groups, relationships and experiences.


Writing down what you're feeling really helps, and then writing down ways to rethink what your thoughts are also is helpful. For instance, with the issue of the person calling you a bitch. Write down Am I a bitch? and put all the reasons why someone would call you that, why this person felt the need to say that to you, and then your reality and why. You can refer to this all the time. Keep it in your purse or on your computer monitor. I had to write a list of what I know was unethical, illegal, manipulative, etc. regarding my doctor because he was such a charmer, it was easy to believe he was right about things. I still refer to it in weak moments.

It will take time to feel better. Keep in touch with that great support system you have. And keep writing here. PM me if you wish.


Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: Templar ()
Date: December 23, 2003 02:03AM

I think you will find if you take a look at several of the other messages posted here, that your experience with Landmark isn't unique. Even worse, I think you will also realize that you arent the only person here to describe the same long lasting negative side effects.

Also your observation in regards to what kind of people are looking for help in these LGATs is very accurate.

I think I can speculate as to why the forum leader called you a bitch. Your forum leader is trained to squash dissent. Further she is instructed to discourage others from questioning the forum leaders by humiliating and insulting those people brave and smart enough NOT to blindly accept everything that is fed to them.

Also Lil, as you surf this Message Board, you will discover that there is a large number of people suffering from the same negative side-effects that you are experiencing. The bad news; as I recall most of these people cite that the road to recovery is long and seemingly unending. The good news is that you have found at this MB a collection of people who will understand you and the confusion you deal with.

My best wishes Lil!!

Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: Cosmophilospher ()
Date: December 23, 2003 02:52AM


I will tell you my opinion.
I went to the Landmark intro sessions, and i spoke up, and pointed out the errors made by the "Leader", and got into a big argument, and all the rest. And it never affected me at all.

What this leader was trying to do is MANIPULATE you.
She was running a TECHNIQUE on you.
I call it "Landmarking".

People i knew who got into Landmark tried to do it to me as well.

She called you a verbally abusive name in front of a group of people to try and SHAME you, and wound your Self-Esteem.

Cast her out of your mind.

Get out a piece of paper.
Write at the top: EVIDENCE i am NOT a bitch!!!
Then make a massive list of all the good things people have said to you. Ask your friends, "hey, am i a bitch?" And they will say, OF COURSE NOT!

Look, this woman was just a nasty manipulator, who was trying to PUT YOU DOWN to gain POWER OVER YOU.
It has NOTHING to do with you as a person.

For instance, if a person with a psychotic disorder came up to you on the street, and screamed at you, YOU ARE AN EVIL PERSON!!!
Would that depress you?
Of course not, that person was having a psychotic episode.

This Landmark "leader" is a sick, disturbed, verbally abusive person. Do not let her vile verbal abuse touch you.
For instance, one reason Landmark had no power over me, is that when people have tried to "Landmark" me, it has no effect on me. I know what they are trying to do, and i just point it out to them, and mirror it back to them.

She was TRYING to hurt you, to get power over you, and put you down, to hook you into her courses.
Be STRONG, and powerfully cast that manipulator out of your mind.
Treat her like you would if anyone else tried to abuse you.
Her words were MEANINGLESS.

Be strong mentally, and do not let these abusers hurt you.
The verbal abusers can only hurt you, if you LET THEM.
Learn from this experience, and learn about the abusive techniques that nasty Landmark person tried to use on you, so they have no power over you.

The very fact you stood up, and pointed out the bullcrap being spewed by this person proves that you are an intelligent person with integrity!

If it were me, in my MIND, i would just tell her to f*ck off!! I'd say, Yo Landmark recruiter woman, you're the bitch!!! Get out of my brain!!!

Then just imaginally throw her out of your brain!!! I am 100% serious!

(not very elegant, yet very effective!)

Or, you can be like the Buddha.
When insulted by another person, just tell them you do not ACCEPT the "gift" of their insult, so the "gift" of their insult remains with them.

Use this experience to train yourself to ACCEPT yourself, and feel good about yourself, even if some crazies try and put you down.
Once you can see what these types of people are doing, and you know how to manage your own mind, these wackos can't touch you.


Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: dutch ()
Date: December 23, 2003 05:22AM

Hi Lil,

thank you for your post, it reminded me of so many of the feelings I've been having the past six months. During my "curriculum" I was one of the people that stood up and questioned the leaders. the leader then accused me of being , " a pain in the ass" "over-intellectual" "a spoiled brat" etc. For weeks afterwards I replayed those moments in my head. I asked everybody around me if it was true. They all said NO, but I continued to beat myself up over it. What a waste of energy!

I loved what you said about reading something somewhere and wanting to respond to it, but not being able to put the right words together. So true. The other night my wife and I were watching the movie The Legend of Bagger Vance. There were a bunch of new-agey, self helpy terms and references about being authentic and integrity and being present. We were practically throwing shoes at the TV. At least we can laugh about it now, but it's taken quite some time to get that far.

Good luck and keep us posted.


Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: Guy ()
Date: December 23, 2003 06:50AM


Welcome to Landmark Education Corporation.
A leader in the transformation of your money, time, and life, into their pockets.

If you don't say anything, they'll keep doing it.
Silence is what they count on to maintain their perpetrations.

Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: express ()
Date: December 23, 2003 11:44PM

Guy as a former staff member or program leader or whatever YOU should know that they restructured and droped the Corp. That makes them LE not LEC......

Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: Lil ()
Date: December 24, 2003 12:21AM

Dear All

Many thanks for your replies. They really have helped me.


Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: Guy ()
Date: December 24, 2003 04:38AM

Restructured....hmmm let's many times has that happened with Jack's gang?

Guy as a former staff member or program leader or whatever YOU should know that they restructured and droped the Corp. That makes them LE not LEC......

How's your moving average?
Are you getting the numbers you need?

Self-doubt post Landmark Forum
Posted by: Guy ()
Date: December 24, 2003 04:45AM


If you want to make me wrong, do it in another thread. Don't leave a turd in the space of someone elses sharing.

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