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[i:bb67365cc0]Originally posted by gc4062 [/i:bb67365cc0]
.......In my travels between centers.....

What did you do GC, that you travelled between centers? Were you one of the teachers?

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Hope
Thanks GC,

So I suppose it's possible that what I witnessed was each participant's unique emotional reaction to being manipulated and hearing some of the material for the first time. For someone who has not done much reading in psychology or philosophy or even watched Oprah for that matter, doing the Forum must be akin to being hit between the eyes with a sledge hammer. To be told everything is your racket - even your health problems - is not easy to take. To go in believing you're a screw-up and having it confirmed must be just as depressing.

To anybody/nobody/myself:

When I took a social psychology elective years ago we saw studied many interesting experiments. In one participants were shown problems that were not particularly difficult. However post- experiment debriefing revealed that even when the participants knew the answers, they would still agree with the group even when the group was clearly wrong.

The group knew that they were wrong too, but that was the independent variable that was being manipulated to see what the participants' response (dependent variable) would be. It seems that we are all far more socially vulnerable creatures than we care to admit.

Many of these social psy. experiments were a result of the Holocaust. Researchers (many of whom were Jewish) wanted to get a better understanding of how seemingly ordinary people could commit heinous acts. The aggregate results showed that nearly all the participants were vulnerable to such social pressure. These researcher felt it was important for the world to realize that Germans weren't "evil" and that anyone was capable of these acts.

Although one intrepid woman in an pseudo electroshock experiment resolutely refused to inflict what she perceived to be painful shocks. Kudos to her. But she was a rare exception. One scarey male participant resolutely applied pseudo shocks--thinking all along that they were real--and afterward he thanked the lab-coated "leader" for the "privilege" of participating in something that he felt was for the "greater good."

In another famous social psy. experiment male students were split into two groups of pretend guards and prisoners. After a surprisingly short amount of time the "guards" became surprisingly abusive and the "prisoners" demonstrated emotional trauma congruent with that of real prisoners. The experiment had to be prematurely ended due to the unexpected negative intensity demonstrated by both guards and prisoners.

Very scarey.

SS

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gc4062
rrmoderator, thank you!

Perhaps now we can return to the original posting of this thread. With the assorted flamers lately, most every thread begun has been hijacked off the original topic, or has gone off on so many tangents as to nearly become unreadable.

Hope, back to your original question...

Statistically, each forum can contain up to 15% reviewers.

Is it correct that TMLPers and ILPers review the Forum and practice their ~killer shares~ there as part of their ~agreements~ ?

Chris

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sunsetserene


When I took a social psychology elective years ago we saw studied many interesting experiments. In one participants were shown problems that were not particularly difficult. However post- experiment debriefing revealed that even when the participants knew the answers, they would still agree with the group even when the group was clearly wrong.

SS

Well, here I go again: talking to myself.

Was anyone here is quick enough on the uptake to "get it?"

OK, the short version:

You see, if you get enough plants in a function, like say a Landmark one, aping the "correct", the classical psy. experiment above suggests that people planted in such an experience might influence the newbies to obey the wishes of the group--even if that group is Landmark and/or clearly wrong in the eyes of the new participants.

It's probably in any college soc. psy. book.

Hope this helps just one person.

To the moderator:

I am getting e mails reply notifications regardless of who is being replied to. (shrug)

That is getting tiresome. (rolling eyes)

A constructive criticism of your forum: How about making so one can reply directly to a poster at any point in a thread, and only that person will receive the reply notification via e mail.

I doubt my criticism will motivate anyone to do a thing, but I feel better for getting it off of my chest. (grin)

I'd stick around, but obviously nobody is the least bit interested in what I have to say. If I feel another compulsion to discuss my brush with cults experiences, I'll go find a blank wall to talk to. It's less dehumanizing to be ignored by a wall. And less rude too.(sigh)

Please delete my membership from your forum,and that will suffice for my last "reply" from this forum. I'll delete my remote yahoo address.

As if I was going to get a regular one anyway (LOL).

SS

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rrmoderator
As you admit, "I am the same Landmark devotee and a real flamer and fanatic."

Thanks.

Now everyone on this board can clearly understand where you are coming from and what your agenda is.

FYI--your flames will not be posted.

I am more than disappointed to learn that Siam has been banned from posting on this forum. I wish to protest this decision.

This is a real own goal.

Censorship of a poster should be based on some genuine disrespectful or ad hominem posts, not just because the Moderator here disagrees with Siam’s point of view. This ban reduces the credibility of this forum and therefore limits the effectiveness of the views expressed here.

I can see no evidence of any of the flaming or ranting by Siam here which the moderator has accused him of.

As a result of Siam’s ban, I will cease from promoting or recommending this site to genuine seekers of free and fair discussions on Landmark by those who seek a balance of pro and ante points of view.

There are other better moderated sites where this debate can be continued without censorship.

Chris (Landmark critic)

Power Corrupts.
Here is the Prison Experiment
[www.prisonexp.org]

Coz

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sunsetserene


In another famous social psy. experiment male students were split into two groups of pretend guards and prisoners. After a surprisingly short amount of time the "guards" became surprisingly abusive and the "prisoners" demonstrated emotional trauma congruent with that of real prisoners. The experiment had to be prematurely ended due to the unexpected negative intensity demonstrated by both guards and prisoners.

Very scarey.

SS

SS,

There is a delay in writing a post and the actual appearance of a post. I don't get to this forum several times a day to respond to everyone.

My original question was answered regarding how many plants there are in a typical forum. My question was not about how plants work.

As for the problem with receiving emails notifying you of responses, that's pretty much the way many forums operate. You have the option of receiving emails or not in your preferences.

GC4062,

Your numbers are right on as far as I remember.
There was a standing "recommendation" to review the Forum for staff. I can't remember if it was every 6 months or yearly.
Addendum...staff is not allowed to take outside courses without permission also.

Hope,
It may be very possible that the "sharers" were mostly reviewers. Those that shared always got "aknowledgment" from the FL and the room. Another opportunity to look good.

Sunsetserene,
Your observation is germane. It does influence the outcome by seeding the group dynamic.

"Generating agreement" would be the Landmark title to the study. :D

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gc4062

Hope, back to your original question...

Statistically, each forum can contain up to 15% reviewers. In a typical size forum of 150 participants, that would mean 22 reviewers. In my travels between centers, I had not seen any planted on purpose, but, of course, I can only speak for the places I had visited, and only the time I was in the office. Just because I did not witness it personally does not mean that it does not take place.

Reviewers pay either the deposit amount or half price, depending on the region or country. The rates differ from area to area.

As Guy can confirm, every time a new "version" or "edition" was released into common usage, all staff and program leaders had to review the course. I maintained that they could have given us a one or two page handout with the new material, but the bigshots insisted on doing the entire thing again.

Guy, you may have seen differently than I.