Cult, NOT
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: December 30, 2003 06:45AM
Here is the passage to which I was referring. There are some interesting reviews at Amazon if you do a search on books relating to Werner Erhard. Obviously, some of his fans have attempted to discredit his critics there as well. It must really bother them that they can't control the "conversation." This one is under Jane Self's book about the "60 Minutes" expose by someone who calls himself ernestlouis:
>>A story left half explored, August 31, 2000
Reviewer: ernestlouis from Los Angeles, CA USA
I never met Werner Erhard, but I assisted briefly at est's "Area Center" in New York in the 80s. I saw more open-hearted, committed people humiliated and verbally abused there in those few months than I have in all my years since. I was therefore stunned by Jane Self's breezy dismissal of the anger, sadness and sense of betrayal Werner's former employees have expressed.
A good part of Self's book focuses on Erhard's daughters recanting the claims of child sexual abuse they made on 60 Minutes. Self blames the daughter's drug use and Werner's ex-wife Ellen for poisoning the children's minds. Okay, so they recanted the stories. Fine. But what Self never asks is, "What was going on in that house that someone who was supposed to be one of the world's leading guides to enlightenment and integrity was raising a pack of drug-addicted liars?"
Late in the book, Self leaves us with Werner saying that he has "taken responsibility" for what happened within his family. Forgive me, but-- so what? Self wants us to see what happened to Werner as an enormous injustice. I want to know what happened to those children first. And if they lived every day what I experienced working briefly at the Area Center, I'm surprised they didn't do worse.
That said, the book DOES succeed in portraying the sinister side of Scientology, and for that reason it's worth reading. >>>
>>A story left half explored, August 31, 2000
Reviewer: ernestlouis from Los Angeles, CA USA
I never met Werner Erhard, but I assisted briefly at est's "Area Center" in New York in the 80s. I saw more open-hearted, committed people humiliated and verbally abused there in those few months than I have in all my years since. I was therefore stunned by Jane Self's breezy dismissal of the anger, sadness and sense of betrayal Werner's former employees have expressed.
A good part of Self's book focuses on Erhard's daughters recanting the claims of child sexual abuse they made on 60 Minutes. Self blames the daughter's drug use and Werner's ex-wife Ellen for poisoning the children's minds. Okay, so they recanted the stories. Fine. But what Self never asks is, "What was going on in that house that someone who was supposed to be one of the world's leading guides to enlightenment and integrity was raising a pack of drug-addicted liars?"
Late in the book, Self leaves us with Werner saying that he has "taken responsibility" for what happened within his family. Forgive me, but-- so what? Self wants us to see what happened to Werner as an enormous injustice. I want to know what happened to those children first. And if they lived every day what I experienced working briefly at the Area Center, I'm surprised they didn't do worse.
That said, the book DOES succeed in portraying the sinister side of Scientology, and for that reason it's worth reading. >>>
Cult, NOT
Posted by:
elena
()
Date: December 31, 2003 07:28AM
Don't know if you've already read it but I think you would enjoy Peter McWilliams' book.
It's difficult to find a copy of "Life 102; What To Do When Your Guru Sues You." The cheapest one on Amazon is $50.00
The Amazon book reviews are becoming a great source of information. Here's a link. If it doesn't work, it's to the reviews of the above.
[www.amazon.com]
Ellen
It's difficult to find a copy of "Life 102; What To Do When Your Guru Sues You." The cheapest one on Amazon is $50.00
The Amazon book reviews are becoming a great source of information. Here's a link. If it doesn't work, it's to the reviews of the above.
[www.amazon.com]
Ellen
Cult, NOT
Posted by:
patrick-darcy
()
Date: January 20, 2004 04:27AM
Quote
gremlinuk
Im moaning about nothing, im not unsuccessful, i love life and have loved it more since doing the forum.
no , u do not love life more since doing the
forum. u believe u love life more since the
forum. this is not the truth. this is the hypnotic
effects of the forum. u probably left the
forum feeling quite good about whatever
in life u were dealing with at the time.
I agree the marketing tactics are strong, but listen to the negativity between the critics and the positivity between the sceptics.
there is right and wrong. to tell people that they
are being negative about the forum is in
a sense incorrect. werner took a couse or two
before he started est and in this course they
beat people with sticks, put them in coffins,
hung them on crosses, stripped off their
clothes and humiliated them. telling people
not to go there is not negative.
I love life, i love not blaming myself for things, i love not hating people, i love doing what i always wanted to do without holding back, i love not having a chip on my shoulder like so many people i have met.
your new racket obviously is to priase landmark and not deal with reality.
A few notes:
0 was a tiny amount, it was a hard 3 days, but brilliant, and long lasting.
They are definitely too pushy with the sales tactics, you'll find those pushing others get nothing monetery out of the persuasion.
somebody gets the money. have u ever
seen a profit and loss statement of landmarks ?
somebody is getting the bucks, do u have any
idea who it is ?
Cosmophilospher -youre really negative, i bet youre really unhappy inside.
of course u think that. everybody that leaves
landmark will tell everybody else that they
are unhappy because they havent taken a course.
do u believe there are people in the world that
have never taken a landmark course that are
happy, or do u believe that people dont know
what happiness is unless they are made so
by landmark.
Theres no dehuminisation, i am a lay man, no philospher or scientist, im just glad i tried it.
when in a group setting u are stripped of
your belief system and many are then that
is a form of demunisation. landmark through
hypnosis and other means strips people of their
self and installs another way of being.
that way of being is basically empty and
meaningless. that is why when people attempt
to have conversations with landmark grads they
dont usually get very far because they people
will eventually fall back on there is no truth
and if there is no truth there is no room for
discussion. meaninless, if the forum is meaningless they having a discussion about
meaningless forum would not make a whole
lot of sense now would it ?
I took the forum in 1998, that was a while back.
u are now trapped in your new way of thinking. u are unable to think beyond
the realm of landmark.
I love life!
u make this statement. is this the truth ?
love is all u need.
Cult, NOT
Posted by:
notmadanymore
()
Date: February 05, 2004 07:01PM
I was recommended to this evil junk by a friend. We were looking for a therapist. One of her friends had done Hoffman; and she said they thought it was great.
Just wait until we explain to her what the truth is: how embarrassed is she going to feel?
Anyone who knows what the critics say about these cults; and still recommends it to their friends is no friend. If they weren't brainwashed, they'd stay clear of the subject.
I am not religious in any way; but you're gonna pay for it somehow if you deliberately invite your friends into this sick sick world.
I am just one sack of bitterness.
Lost a wife, she lost her dignity, and I lost nearly a year of my life; just through therapy with a Hoffman counsellor. Since finding out it was a cult, my ex-wife won't open the door after 1900.
I wish there was better support out there. Anyone else know of groups where you can share horror stories. The trouble is I am not capable of being honest, because they'd soon enough know who I was. And then that horrible woman'd be on the phone; and I simply don't have the strength to fend her off.
Are there any helplines etc people can call that aren't staffed by creeps; and where DUMB DUMB people like the Landmark fans below cannot post.
Just wait until we explain to her what the truth is: how embarrassed is she going to feel?
Anyone who knows what the critics say about these cults; and still recommends it to their friends is no friend. If they weren't brainwashed, they'd stay clear of the subject.
I am not religious in any way; but you're gonna pay for it somehow if you deliberately invite your friends into this sick sick world.
I am just one sack of bitterness.
Lost a wife, she lost her dignity, and I lost nearly a year of my life; just through therapy with a Hoffman counsellor. Since finding out it was a cult, my ex-wife won't open the door after 1900.
I wish there was better support out there. Anyone else know of groups where you can share horror stories. The trouble is I am not capable of being honest, because they'd soon enough know who I was. And then that horrible woman'd be on the phone; and I simply don't have the strength to fend her off.
Are there any helplines etc people can call that aren't staffed by creeps; and where DUMB DUMB people like the Landmark fans below cannot post.
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