what might have been positive...
nothing. what good can come out of that?

be honest and open in your communication?
get over some past pain on move on?
everyone is a bit judgmental, but it's normal, no need to fight?

duh! that staff is positive, no doubt about it, but it's nothing that my mom didn't tell me when i was i kid. i paid that reminder with money, pride, hundreds of hours of my time for that? i have suffered thought reform for that? how can someone be so evil? you can write a self help book and it's gonna sell millions without hurting anyone, if you want the money. but this...this is...i don't even know what to say.

i've been reading old posts of this board, it's all full of the same things that i feel, similiar memories, experiences...it's being helpful, really.
but i'm not gonna say 'well there was some positive stuff'

I know what you ment to say martin, this rant is not at you!
:wink:

it's just that i'm not ready to forgive and forget. I just can't.
Maybe i'm over-reacting. I'll calm down. But it's frustating to know they'll try to get away with that with their little things like "it's in the past!it doesn't matter now", "you didnt get it", "you're being your act"...or the most disgusting, they use it a lot here in london:
"it's not even started yet! it won't start before the very end! you'll see"
do they use this line in the USA? "it's not even started yet"?
well, it will NEVER start. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE NEXT CLASS. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THE NEXT COURSE. after all, they "live in the future".

And i only got out on monday. only a few know. soon they'll start the bulling calls. Any suggestion how to handle them?[/quote]

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And i only got out on monday. only a few know. soon they'll start the bulling calls. Any suggestion how to handle them?

wait until the first bullying call, deal with it by telling the landmarkian that you are through with the cult, you do not want to hear from landmark again and hang up. When they call again, inform them that they are harassing you and promise to report their harrassment to the police if they don't stop. Hang up again. Repeat only once more, then report them to the police if they call again, if police don't care about harrassing phone calls, report them to the phone company. Don't waste time trying to rationalize with any of them, it will bounce off like a rubber ball.

They are always dropping the same phrases: you are your racket and stuff, but you don't have to believe these "simplifications" and nonsense, life and the human soul is much more complicated, isn't it?

Obviously, they have crossed a line, because you are pretty upset, and it is important that you respect your own defenses.

Tell them that you don't want to talk to them, and that you don't want to have anything to do with Landmark anymore and that you don't want to have any further "coaching", and they will respect it.
Clearly tell them that they remove your phone number from their list and that you don't want any fruther calls. They do that, because they are obliged to it by law.

yes, they crossed the line.
I never ever brought any guest. I was always like "i'm doing a self-help course. it's cool. they have open evenings, wanna check it out?"
"not my thing"
"fair enough"
At something like the 10000th coaching call, we ended up talking again about a workmate of mine. I was speaking with my coach about ways to enroll her and i told the coach that my friend was complaing she was single. She - the coach - told me to enroll her in the possibility of a new relationship.
So i went to my friend and i started to 'share' about the project and blah blah. it didn't work, as usual. So i thought: if i go back to the coach with one more 'no' she'll kill me. So i thought let's give a go at the relationship stuff.
At the mention of 'the possibility of finding a boyfriend' my friend lights up and she said 'yes yes i wanna see'.
I'd been having doubts about landmark piling up for a while, but in that moment...when i saw how she lighted up...
i felt like the most disgusting viper in the world. i couldn't believe i was picking up on her needs like that. i always tried with the job area, that's pretty everyday conversation. i never ever went that low. the first time. and, i told myself, the last.
i told my friend 'actually, we'll talk about this another time' and went away. i didn't shave for days cause i couldn't look at my face in the mirror.
And i thought "i'm gonna tell them i quit". i can't believe i went this low.
i am ashamed even to tell this in this post.
but then i thought, naa, there's no way out. i'll just wait the end, it's only a month to go.
The guests subject came out again and i said something like "at the end of the selp i'm done with landmark, and till then no more guests, i'm not comfortable with inviting people".
the coach reply: "if that's what you feel, there's no reason for you to do the program. to be honest, i always find you really hard to coach. you've always been pretty uncoachable."
that from ms "oh maurice you are soooo inspiring".
then the leader mentioned bad press, i googled and BINGO.

Hi Maurice,

I don't know what to say. From the outside, the pressure the coach has put on you to invite guests is such a nonsense. As a free citizen in a free country, you paid for some self-help course, you should be able do what you want with it. Noone can force you to invite other people. Don't take this coach seriously, at all. If she would be prfessionell, she should ask you whether you got any value for your money from the course or if you could apply what you learned to your life instead of ...

The being "not coachable" card is just one of the cards they are typically drawing. I could have the same conversation with you, its totally sterotyped. Either you are not coachable, or you are running a racket ... bla bla if you don't do what they expect from you or if you are critical to make you feel bad as a person ... Don't feel bad about your decisions whatever anyone else, or some coach or whoever, is saying, you don't want to bring guests, so you don't do it.

BTW: the success of coach is measured by the number of guests his group is bringing not by the value you have got as a participant, another madness and hypocracy of the Landmark system.

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the coach reply: "if that's what you feel, there's no reason for you to do the program. to be honest, i always find you really hard to coach. you've always been pretty uncoachable."

This is the part about landmarkians that bothered me from first sight. Very enthusiastic and anxious to talk until they see they're chasing a parked car, then the attitude is more like, 'do I know you from somewhere?' The cold steeled glares I've seen in practicing landmarkians eyes really disturbs me. The destructive, spirit crushing, conscience stifling, and insatiable craving for more hype the programming causes is impossible to hide from the eyes. The first time I ever experienced that hard nosed landmarkian glare was from one of my landmarkian friend's coaches, the second time was when I was with the same friend and a bunch of her fellow landmarkians showed up. I instantly got the glare speared right through me from all of them and then from my friend, then she became totally oblivious to my presence and I walked away from that sick mob with a permanent image of a landmarkians' soul in my mind.
Maurice, be very grateful that you are free from the insatiable pits of Landmark Education. Considering the power the cult has to maintain its hold, you have done something extraordinary to walk away. I commend you!

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maurice
the coach reply: "if that's what you feel, there's no reason for you to do the program. to be honest, i always find you really hard to coach. you've always been pretty uncoachable."
that from ms "oh maurice you are soooo inspiring".
then the leader mentioned bad press, i googled and BINGO.

This is the part that always gets to me.

Why oh why did I not simply GOOGLE for more information before forking up the money for the dubious coursework? If only I had done some independent research, instead of simply relying on the opinion of the individual who had promoted the course to me in the first place... Sigh, and that is precisely why word-of-mouth-advertising works for them - not enough people take the time to read up as much as they can on the course and the history of LGATs, BEFORE going to their first course or "introduction"...

It also pist me off that statement about being "uncoachable", that Maurice's instructor said to him, (probably in front of lots of people too) - but I suppose that is to be expected in a venomous environment like that ...

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Why oh why did I not simply GOOGLE for more information before forking up the money for the dubious coursework? If only I had done some independent research, instead of simply relying on the opinion of the individual who had promoted the course to me in the first place... Sigh, and that is precisely why word-of-mouth-advertising works for them - not enough people take the time to read up as much as they can on the course and the history of LGATs, BEFORE going to their first course or "introduction"...

maybe if you googled first, you'd still be wondering what the real scoop is. You didn't google, you've been there, you know what its all about now and what you paid in money may have been the better alternative than if you had googled first, tried it anyway and learned how to steel yourself against the critics. :o The money you'd be spending now and the hours and days of life you'd be missing out on...of course this is just a hypothetical kind of 'what if' but maybe the money you lost was worth the magnitude and value of the lesson involved. There are people who were warned first, went anyway and are still forking their money, lives, dignity etc.... :(

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ON2 LF

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Why oh why did I not simply GOOGLE for more information before forking up the money for the dubious coursework? If only I had done some independent research, instead of simply relying on the opinion of the individual who had promoted the course to me in the first place... Sigh, and that is precisely why word-of-mouth-advertising works for them - not enough people take the time to read up as much as they can on the course and the history of LGATs, BEFORE going to their first course or "introduction"...

maybe if you googled first, you'd still be wondering what the real scoop is. You didn't google, you've been there, you know what its all about now and what you paid in money may have been the better alternative than if you had googled first, tried it anyway and learned how to steel yourself against the critics. :o The money you'd be spending now and the hours and days of life you'd be missing out on...of course this is just a hypothetical kind of 'what if' but maybe the money you lost was worth the magnitude and value of the lesson involved. There are people who were warned first, went anyway and are still forking their money, lives, dignity etc.... :(

Sigh, thank you. Perhaps you are correct - the inside scoop that I picked up on has certainly been invaluable in the research process. And not only have I learned to steel myself against the critics, but against the other types of controversial/destructive/manipulative groups that are out there as well. But still - hopefully the next potential consumer will have more information available to him/her than I did...

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Sigh, thank you. Perhaps you are correct - the inside scoop that I picked up on has certainly been invaluable in the research process. And not only have I learned to steel myself against the critics, but against the other types of controversial/destructive/manipulative groups that are out there as well. But still - hopefully the next potential consumer will have more information available to him/her than I did...

Nothing like first hand experience to deflect the attempts at 'enrollment' by those who didn't google either!
I am freaked by the numbers of other culty groups in existence. I had nooooooo idea whatsoever about the seriousness of cults and cult-like groups until my friend introduced me to LE. I knew of groups like David Koresh and that nutbar who caused his followers to participate in a mass suicide to catch the spaceship...I used to think that all the new agey stuff I got into years ago was just harmless inconsequential stuff. I had no idea the connection to bad things all of that stuff has.
I'm not sure how well I would have fared had a cult like landmark, PSI or any other destructive group, had ever gotten their hooks into me. I am not one to sway once I've made up my mind on something. If I ever made up my mind in favor of a cult, God knows where or how I'd be right now. I think one group tried recruiting me in my late teens but luckily I was too into partying and working to get caught up! That was a fairly close call, I remember a woman trying to get me to re-experience bits and pieces of my childhood and trying to get me to re-write how certain moments played out, only she was giving the 'alternative' scenario to replace the original memory with. I remember thinking how absurd to think of myself crawling around in a flippin toy store looking for just the right teddy bear to have....it was too weird for me and I resented her thinking she could erase a memory that was significant to me with a friggin teddy bear in some middle-of-nowhere toy store! I have no idea to this day which cult that was but it was a brush I never forget! Thank goodness I loved to party because after that little episode I went out with a friend and washed it all away at a favorite haunt :D
I'm thinking your own experiences serve a good purpose today and have likely served to protect others from taking the same path.