All--

Thanks again for your thoughts and experiences.

As Saturday Night Live put it so well in a famous legal spoof, "The point is moot!" ;D

Alas, I'm apparently not the right type. Interestingly, I reached the same conclusion after the conversation I referenced in the post briefly discussing our meeting.

As a Myers-Briggs ENTP, I love free and open debate and will switch sides in the middle of a debate just for fun. However, talking with a LEC fan is simply intellectual masturbation. Fun for a little while, but lets get real--there is a LOT more to life!

Best,

Automatic....FTP

The funniest thing I've seen out of the LEC camp is the publications on "intimacy" and "relationships".

Bwahahahahahahhaaaaa:D :p :rolleyes:

And now for the "LEC dating website"...Bwahahaahahhaaahahaaa:D :p :o

That's akin to an untreated narcoleptic train conductor writing a book on "How to Drive a Train Safely".

Page One:
Don't do what I do.

Or perhaps a porcupine's essay on the "Art of Sensual Massage".

Page one:
You may have noticed that I've never ever been close enough to anyone to massage them but don't let that stop you from listening to me tell you how to do it...........

It hurts from laughing....:D :p :D

Guy

My 2 cents worth :

I was introduced to Landmark by my ex girlfriend after we separated following a 12 month relationship.

My girlfriend was heavily ~coached~ by her best friend (a Landmark acolyte) and she in turn did a heavy ~coaching~ number on me during our relationship. Of course I didn't recognise this at the time, being ignorant both of Landmark and of how memes worked. I think my girlfriend tapped into a latent potential I already had in me to be easily ‘influenced’. She used the ~tech~ to confuse, ~enrol~ and dominate me.

By the time I was introduced to Landmark (which was a year after the relationship ended) the ~coaching~ from the relationship had prepared the way for me to be very easily ~enrolled~. The relationship had laid the foundations for me to be 'love-bombed' into the cult. This 'love-bombing' is a very common cult technique.

The way I was introduced to Landmark was interesting. My ex. phoned me as part of her ~getting complete~ homework to request a meeting.. I had no idea why she wanted to meet me (she said nothing about being on a course). When we met, she explained she had been ~transformed~ into a completely different person since we separated by doing The Forum, and she apologised (at great length !) for her ~racket~ with me. I was furiously angry at being used as part of her homework, the whole meeting was deeply false and she was clearly lobotomised and spouting a rehearsed speech.

I phoned Landmark to complain about the behaviour of their ~graduate~ toward me and literally shouted my complaint of being used and abused down the phone at them. They invited me to an Intro, and I went along to find out more about it for myself. In retrospect I think the reason I allowed myself to go along and subsequently register for The Forum was partly Landmark’s persuasion techniques, partly the way I’d been groomed by my ex, and mainly that I wanted to believe that my ex had really ~transformed~ and we could get back together for a better relationship :-)

I continued to hope against hope that somehow Landmark would help us to get back together again in a ~transformed~ relationship throughout the 2 years I was involved with Landmark. Landmark helped to prolong and delay my emotional separation from her for those 2 years. We sometimes assisted together, sometimes did Seminars together, but there was never any renewal of the sexual relationship.

The power of love/lust, and the triumph of hope over experience ………….. as Guy says, ‘love/lust can trump any BS detector’.

Incidentally my ex. girlfriend has gone on to attempt to ~enrol~ several subsequent boyfriends into Landmark, including her current partner (plus her young son has done the Childrens Forum and FIA). She is a regular 'fishy-flirt'. Only 1 of her 3 subsequent partners that I know of has successfully resisted her love-bombing enrolment technique and declined to participate in the Forum.

I see her as a classic victim of cultic mind control, being used to enrol men into the cult through sexual predation. Very sad.

Chris

>

Quote

[i:be941e8e41]Originally posted by Guy [/i:be941e8e41]
The funniest thing I've seen out of the LEC camp is the publications on "intimacy" and "relationships". <

Do you recall the Landmark definition/~distinction~ of Sex ?

"When you're hot, you're hot, when you're not, you're not."

Lovely eh ?

I remember a Forum Leader telling us that 'being in love' was a Winning Formula (aka Strong Suit).

That's just a couple of examples of how people are objectified.

Chris

During the last 10 minutes of our Tuesday evening in the Forum, the leader threw in the little exercise about choosing, and then did a 3 minute "conversation" about sex. "Sex is not love, has nothing to do with love, is just a mechanical thing". I suppose that helps the LEC folks validate their hare-like behavior.

Hi Hope,
This probably opens up a new subtopic - What does LEC teach on relationships?

The Sex & Intimacy Seminar on the LEC site offers participants that they will be free from all the shoulds and should nots of sex and free of inhibitions.

The Forum alone seems to cause many relationship breakups and I know from personal experience as my girlfriend Jane had an affair with a married man 2 weeks after the course and she could not understand why I was not happy for her. Prior to the course, she was a practicing catholic and believed that marriage was for life. - massive change in attitude and practice.

So - what does LEC teach on relationships?

Oz

What do problematic LGATs Teach on Relationships?

A devout Muslim, Christian, Jew, Mormon or Buddhist could refer to this thread if pressured at work to do an LGAT. Then, armed with the information, he or she could say, 'On religious grounds I cannot participate in this program or anything like it---what they teach about sexuality and relationships would ruin my spiritual practice.'

This would help people defend themselves from being pressured on the job to participate in problematic LGATs.

And it would give people fair warning what they might be in for if someone they love wants to do such a program

Once again, its vital to know what an LGATs theory about human relationship actually is and what format it follows. If they refuse to tell you, you have every right to refuse to enter that room.

No responsible physican would refuse to tell you the name or potential side effects of the medication prescribed for you.

Corboy wrote:

>>What Does Landmark Teach on Relationships?

If LEC indeed teaches people to become manipulative, amoral and rut like bunnies with no regard for the feelings of others,>>



This sums up in one sentence *MY* experience of the few Landmark enthusiasts I was unfortunate enough know.


Ellen

Well - the 3 minute conversation I noted above was just an enticer to sign up for other courses.

However, throughout the forum, people shared their relationship problems and ways they were behaving with each other. There was a mixed message sent - the best way to be happy is to make everyone else around you happy. One woman claimed she got back with her husband, from whom she was separated, after she realized what her racket was, called him and shared her Forum experience. He ended up atteding her "graduation." Most of the others who shared intimate secrets stated they would be leaving their signif other because the SO wasn't doing it for them anymore. However, this was presented as the LF participant running a racket to look good - in other words, by staying together, they were trying to look good and failing to take responsibility for being authentic. In all cases, the SO was not present.

What was rather amusing was one young woman who questioned everything the forum leader said, and he responded with all the twisted jargon you can imagine. ( She could have been a plant just for this purpose.) She also did yoga at the back of the room on break instead of the homework assignments. At the end, when the big bomb was dropped that all was meaningless, she went off on him. His come-back was "you hate men!" and that's all he kept saying.

I can only imagine what he teaches about relationships.

A person I know who did the forum dumped his current squeeze when he met a woman at the forum. He moved in with her the same week. They have spent a tumultuous two years breaking up, screwing around with others, getting back together. When I had a miscarriage, the woman nonchalantly asked if the baby was "his". He's a grad of all LEC has to offer and was a walking-talking LE robot. I can't say this is a result of LEC, but everything else he did had its roots in LE.

Well - the 3 minute conversation I noted above was just an enticer to sign up for other courses.

However, throughout the forum, people shared their relationship problems and ways they were behaving with each other. There was a mixed message sent - the best way to be happy is to make everyone else around you happy. One woman claimed she got back with her husband, from whom she was separated, after she realized what her racket was, called him and shared her Forum experience. He ended up atteding her "graduation." Most of the others who shared intimate secrets stated they would be leaving their signif other because the SO wasn't doing it for them anymore. However, this was presented as the LF participant running a racket to look good - in other words, by staying together, they were trying to look good and failing to take responsibility for being authentic. In all cases, the SO was not present.

What was rather amusing was one young woman who questioned everything the forum leader said, and he responded with all the twisted jargon you can imagine. ( She could have been a plant just for this purpose.) She also did yoga at the back of the room on break instead of the homework assignments. At the end, when the big bomb was dropped that all was meaningless, she went off on him. His come-back was "you hate men!" and that's all he kept saying.

I can only imagine what he teaches about relationships.

A person I know who did the forum dumped his current squeeze when he met a woman at the forum. He moved in with her the same week. They have spent a tumultuous two years breaking up, screwing around with others, getting back together. When I had a miscarriage, the woman nonchalantly asked if the baby was "his". He's a grad of all LEC has to offer and was a walking-talking LE robot. I can't say this is a result of LEC, but everything else he did had its roots in LE.