Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
gc4062
()
Date: December 10, 2003 12:48PM
Before my involvement with landmark as a staff member, I was in a career which required me to ingest a large volume of information on a daily basis. On a typical morning, I would read four or five newspapers front to back, and would throughout the day zip through a number of other documents and an average of 200 e-mails per day.
What follows is what a few other former program leaders and staff members have referred to in other threads...
After leaving staff, on a typical day, I can barely manage to get through one newspaper, and at times have had to stack them up until I can concentrate enough to be able to make it through a one-column article. Sometimes the pile gets high enough I end up tossing them instead.
Being able to appropriately concentrate or focus on what is in front of me is nearly impossible these days. It's taken up to a month at times just to finish a magazine. I used to read three or four novels per week, a typical novel now takes anywhere from a week to two months depending on the length and amount of concentration I can muster.
At times, it takes two hours or longer to compose one reply to a thread on the system. First there is figuring out what I want to say and how to phrase it. Then there is the first edit to ensure no jargon has leaked into the comments. Then follows the second edit to ensure that if jargon has been removed, that the reply still makes sense.
Before I ever got involved, I was a human vacuum cleaner for information, taking in everything I could, understanding it as I went along, and processing the facts to come up with a large mental reference library. Now, it takes a concerted effort to focus long enough to watch the evening news. A friend tells me this is another lingering effect of the programming.
Still looking for the route to get back to where I was before getting involved in landmark. I recall reading somewhere online that people claimed increased clarity after doing the forum... yeah right.
Perhaps why some former staff go back again? When in an environment where the programming is active, they can function?
What follows is what a few other former program leaders and staff members have referred to in other threads...
After leaving staff, on a typical day, I can barely manage to get through one newspaper, and at times have had to stack them up until I can concentrate enough to be able to make it through a one-column article. Sometimes the pile gets high enough I end up tossing them instead.
Being able to appropriately concentrate or focus on what is in front of me is nearly impossible these days. It's taken up to a month at times just to finish a magazine. I used to read three or four novels per week, a typical novel now takes anywhere from a week to two months depending on the length and amount of concentration I can muster.
At times, it takes two hours or longer to compose one reply to a thread on the system. First there is figuring out what I want to say and how to phrase it. Then there is the first edit to ensure no jargon has leaked into the comments. Then follows the second edit to ensure that if jargon has been removed, that the reply still makes sense.
Before I ever got involved, I was a human vacuum cleaner for information, taking in everything I could, understanding it as I went along, and processing the facts to come up with a large mental reference library. Now, it takes a concerted effort to focus long enough to watch the evening news. A friend tells me this is another lingering effect of the programming.
Still looking for the route to get back to where I was before getting involved in landmark. I recall reading somewhere online that people claimed increased clarity after doing the forum... yeah right.
Perhaps why some former staff go back again? When in an environment where the programming is active, they can function?
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
Templar
()
Date: December 11, 2003 12:33AM
That you cannot sue these people for ruining what sounds like a great asset to man. Your mind. I thinks its tragic what has happened to you and I sincerely hope for your eventual recovery.
For the record; it isnt obvious to me that you have 'lost a step' intellectually. Infact you had to point out the difficulty you face in posting responses to threads for me to realize your trouble. I also am convinced that despite your claim for a loss of ability that you are still one of the most intelligent people using these forums.
Recovering from psychological damage to the subconcious probably takes a great deal of time and patience if it is even possible at all.
What Landmark did is like the equivilant of giving a human being a life time supply of LSD. They distort and bend reality beyond the recognition of the recipient and then leave a permanent reminder of their visit. The lingering effects appear to have a long duration and may even be permanent. And my guess is that you, being of an accellerated intellectual capacity, didnt even at least get to halucinate. What a rip off.
For the record; it isnt obvious to me that you have 'lost a step' intellectually. Infact you had to point out the difficulty you face in posting responses to threads for me to realize your trouble. I also am convinced that despite your claim for a loss of ability that you are still one of the most intelligent people using these forums.
Recovering from psychological damage to the subconcious probably takes a great deal of time and patience if it is even possible at all.
What Landmark did is like the equivilant of giving a human being a life time supply of LSD. They distort and bend reality beyond the recognition of the recipient and then leave a permanent reminder of their visit. The lingering effects appear to have a long duration and may even be permanent. And my guess is that you, being of an accellerated intellectual capacity, didnt even at least get to halucinate. What a rip off.
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
Hope
()
Date: December 11, 2003 12:41AM
I've had an extreme exacerbation of an already existing concentration problem, the nature of which Corboy mentioned in a thread elsewhere. An avid reader and researcher, since the Forum\doctor, I've picked up many books on various subjects relating to cults, narcissism, alternative medicine, and find it difficult to read and comprehend what I've read. Career-wise, I have many great ideas which will take a lot of work and planning, recipe testing, menu-planning, but, again, don't have the concentration and focus to carry it out. If I do get any work done, the next day I can find it on my desk and not recall even doing it.
I also have the same issues when it comes to replying to posts and sometimes just don't because of this.
LEC would say I need more classes, I'm sure. I don't understand how this has happened physiologically. Doctors say it's depression, but if it is, it sure doesn't feel like it. It's more like an overall numbness.
I also have the same issues when it comes to replying to posts and sometimes just don't because of this.
LEC would say I need more classes, I'm sure. I don't understand how this has happened physiologically. Doctors say it's depression, but if it is, it sure doesn't feel like it. It's more like an overall numbness.
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: December 11, 2003 03:37AM
resembles the pattern used in TM (Transcendental Meditation)
(for more info go to www.factnet.org)
People are taken through a ritual that puts them in a trance and given a mantra (a slogan to repeat during twice daily personal meditation sessions).
The mantra maintains and deepens the trance.
Over time, many TM practitioners start spacing out, get anxiety reactions. All mental health professionals who are experts on meditation would advise that they stop meditating.
Instead the TM teachers tell the people that these dissociative anxiety reactions are not bad at all, but are a sign of progress, that the person needs to meditate (that is trance themselves out) even MORE.
First they poison us and make us sick
Then they tell us that the treatment for our misery is to take higher doses of the very thing that made us sick in the first place.
Its important to study which teachers your own teacher or group leader has studied with--all too many operators have picked up tricks from an earlier generation of operators
(for more info go to www.factnet.org)
People are taken through a ritual that puts them in a trance and given a mantra (a slogan to repeat during twice daily personal meditation sessions).
The mantra maintains and deepens the trance.
Over time, many TM practitioners start spacing out, get anxiety reactions. All mental health professionals who are experts on meditation would advise that they stop meditating.
Instead the TM teachers tell the people that these dissociative anxiety reactions are not bad at all, but are a sign of progress, that the person needs to meditate (that is trance themselves out) even MORE.
First they poison us and make us sick
Then they tell us that the treatment for our misery is to take higher doses of the very thing that made us sick in the first place.
Its important to study which teachers your own teacher or group leader has studied with--all too many operators have picked up tricks from an earlier generation of operators
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
Guy
()
Date: December 13, 2003 03:40AM
My experience to a tee.
Thanks for taking the time to post.
I know how long it took you.
I'll cheat by reposting yours.
The constant rereading drives me crazy.
It takes hours for me to post.
These are symptoms of PTSD....Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Thanks for taking the time to post.
I know how long it took you.
I'll cheat by reposting yours.
The constant rereading drives me crazy.
It takes hours for me to post.
These are symptoms of PTSD....Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Quote
gc4062
Before my involvement with landmark, the courses, and as a staff member and program leader, I was in a career which required me to ingest a large volume of information on a daily basis (newspapers, newsletters, reports, and the like). I would be interested in doing an IQ test now, as many years back my siblings and I tested at genius level, and had easily passed the mensa exams.
On a typical morning, I would read four or five newspapers front to back, and would throughout the day zip through a number of other documents and an average of 200 e-mails per day.
What follows is what a few other former program leaders and staff members have referred to in other threads...
After leaving staff, on a typical day, I can barely manage to get through one newspaper, and at times have had to stack them up until I can concentrate enough to be able to make it through a one-column article. Sometimes the pile gets high enough I end up tossing them in the blue box instead.
Being able to appropriately concentrate or focus on what is in front of me is nearly impossible these days. It's taken up to a month at times just to finish a magazine, and I used to polish off three or four novels per week, a typical novel now takes anywhere from a week to two months depending on the length and amount of concentration I can muster.
At times, it takes two hours or longer to compose one reply to a thread on the system. First there is figuring out what I want to say and how to phrase it. Then there is the first edit to ensure no jargon has leaked into the comments. Then follows the second edit to ensure that if jargon has been removed, that the reply still makes sense.
Some of my lengthier posts online have taken almost a day to complete, but the dissemination of information was the priority.
Before I ever got involved, I was a human vacuum cleaner for information, taking in everything I could, understanding it as I went along, and processing the facts to come up with a large mental reference library. Now, it takes a concerted effort to focus long enough to watch the evening news. My friend tells me this is another lingering effect of the programming.
Still looking for the route to get back to where I was before getting involved in the courses. I recall reading somewhere online that people claimed increased clarity after doing the forum... yeah right.
Perhaps why some former staff go back again? When in an environment where the programming is active, they can function?
Your thoughts please...
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: December 13, 2003 05:40AM
For personal psychological healing and growth, i would recommend Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. CBT.
Its a process of examining your Thoughts, Emotions, Behaviors, and Core Beliefs.
If you are having such severe cognitive difficulties, PLEASE find a GOOD psychological expert to help reach a diagnosis, and formulate a treatment plan. You never know, you could have other physical problems that are causing your difficulties.
I recommend a seeing a certified MD or PhD with training in CBT.
Also, be very careful of HOW you think of your past experiences.
For instance, if a person thinks,
"these HORRIBLE experiences i have received by those EVIL people has DESTROYED my entire life",
then those very Thoughts CREATE emotional and cognitive trouble. Its a self-fulfilling prophecy and vicious cycle.
We need to heal our Thoughts, Emotions, Behaviors, and Beliefs.
But first you need to get checked out to see if you are having Biological problems.
Coz
Its a process of examining your Thoughts, Emotions, Behaviors, and Core Beliefs.
If you are having such severe cognitive difficulties, PLEASE find a GOOD psychological expert to help reach a diagnosis, and formulate a treatment plan. You never know, you could have other physical problems that are causing your difficulties.
I recommend a seeing a certified MD or PhD with training in CBT.
Also, be very careful of HOW you think of your past experiences.
For instance, if a person thinks,
"these HORRIBLE experiences i have received by those EVIL people has DESTROYED my entire life",
then those very Thoughts CREATE emotional and cognitive trouble. Its a self-fulfilling prophecy and vicious cycle.
We need to heal our Thoughts, Emotions, Behaviors, and Beliefs.
But first you need to get checked out to see if you are having Biological problems.
Coz
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
Hope
()
Date: December 13, 2003 12:21PM
My experience has been that finding a psych professional who has a clue about this takes a long time. I did CBT, but she thought Landmark was good for some people. Her therapy focused on why I let myself be duped. She assessed the doc to be a sociopath, but the therapy focused on how the relationship supposedly mirrored that of me and my Dad's. After 8 months of trying to see the light I gave up.
The first counselor, also pegged doc as a sociopath, but wanted to know why I was so needy. So now I've found a therapist who is a licensed social worker, and insurance is still debating whether they will cover her fees. A rep called to get more info and just doesn't understand why any old shrink won't do.
The first counselor, also pegged doc as a sociopath, but wanted to know why I was so needy. So now I've found a therapist who is a licensed social worker, and insurance is still debating whether they will cover her fees. A rep called to get more info and just doesn't understand why any old shrink won't do.
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: December 13, 2003 12:25PM
and always get a check up to rule out any medical/physiological condition that could be lousing up concentration. (Low thyroid condition can cause mental fog, as can insulin resistance/diabetes, too)
Additional resources:
PLAY--true playfulness is an early casualty of cult involvement. Cults create robots and robots dont play.
Chase dogs around the park. Do things that help you giggle with your friends. Play scrabble if that turns your crank. Potty humor is really good, too.
Get into your body. Its a great remedy for dissociation. (Just make sure you dont over do athleticism as way to stuff painful emotions!)
Additional resources:
PLAY--true playfulness is an early casualty of cult involvement. Cults create robots and robots dont play.
Chase dogs around the park. Do things that help you giggle with your friends. Play scrabble if that turns your crank. Potty humor is really good, too.
Get into your body. Its a great remedy for dissociation. (Just make sure you dont over do athleticism as way to stuff painful emotions!)
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
Cosmophilospher
()
Date: December 14, 2003 01:54AM
Good point.
Some therapists SAY they do Cognitive Therapy, or CBT, or REBT, but what they REALLY are doing, is mixing in a bunch of their own stuff unconsciously, and many times making a big mess out of CBT!
I hope you can find someone you feel comfortable with, and can get some good results with.
I have never been a "victim" of a cult.
The worst for me was getting all wrapped up in stuff like Anthony Robbins, which is not really a cult, but can be very expensive and damaging for many people.
But i cannot change Tony Robbins disordered personality.
All i can do is CHANGE MYSELF, so they can't get to me!
All i can try to do, is to heal my own vulerabilities in my own personality.
And after i heal myself, perhaps then i can help others help themselves.
So perhaps what your CBT therapist was saying might be accurate?
After all, only certain people are vulnerable to Landmark. For instance, i am not. I saw through it right away, and rejected it. (my friends didn't though).
For instance, some people even have Dependent Personalities, and this can get them into real trouble.
Dependent Personality Disorder
[www.mentalhealth.com]
Keep searching for a GOOD therapist. In my view, of the Cognitive-Behavioral persuasion.
But who knows?
Maybe for you, Interpersonal Therapy might work, or Group Therapy, or even Behavior Therapy?
Our Schemas (Core Beliefs) are formed in our childhoods, and we do mirror those relationships in our adult lives.
But i think you are correct in SEARCHING out for a GOOD therapist with specialized training in dealing with people who have been in a cultic group. Some therapists have ZERO training and knowledge about it.
But in my opinion, CBT, as done by Dr. Aaron Beck, Dr. David Burns, Greenberger and Padesky, and REBT as done by Dr Albert Ellis can help.
Its PRACTICAL stuff, we use to modify our own responses, and make better Choices, and Behaviors.
This is too huge of a subject!
Is there a section of this web-board on RECOVERY OPTIONS for people?
I think there should be a whole new area, where people can share their stories of recovery, and what therapies, and techniques worked for them.
What do you guys think?
Coz
Some therapists SAY they do Cognitive Therapy, or CBT, or REBT, but what they REALLY are doing, is mixing in a bunch of their own stuff unconsciously, and many times making a big mess out of CBT!
I hope you can find someone you feel comfortable with, and can get some good results with.
I have never been a "victim" of a cult.
The worst for me was getting all wrapped up in stuff like Anthony Robbins, which is not really a cult, but can be very expensive and damaging for many people.
But i cannot change Tony Robbins disordered personality.
All i can do is CHANGE MYSELF, so they can't get to me!
All i can try to do, is to heal my own vulerabilities in my own personality.
And after i heal myself, perhaps then i can help others help themselves.
So perhaps what your CBT therapist was saying might be accurate?
After all, only certain people are vulnerable to Landmark. For instance, i am not. I saw through it right away, and rejected it. (my friends didn't though).
For instance, some people even have Dependent Personalities, and this can get them into real trouble.
Dependent Personality Disorder
[www.mentalhealth.com]
Keep searching for a GOOD therapist. In my view, of the Cognitive-Behavioral persuasion.
But who knows?
Maybe for you, Interpersonal Therapy might work, or Group Therapy, or even Behavior Therapy?
Our Schemas (Core Beliefs) are formed in our childhoods, and we do mirror those relationships in our adult lives.
But i think you are correct in SEARCHING out for a GOOD therapist with specialized training in dealing with people who have been in a cultic group. Some therapists have ZERO training and knowledge about it.
But in my opinion, CBT, as done by Dr. Aaron Beck, Dr. David Burns, Greenberger and Padesky, and REBT as done by Dr Albert Ellis can help.
Its PRACTICAL stuff, we use to modify our own responses, and make better Choices, and Behaviors.
This is too huge of a subject!
Is there a section of this web-board on RECOVERY OPTIONS for people?
I think there should be a whole new area, where people can share their stories of recovery, and what therapies, and techniques worked for them.
What do you guys think?
Coz
Quote
Hope
My experience has been that finding a psych professional who has a clue about this takes a long time. I did CBT, but she thought Landmark was good for some people. Her therapy focused on why I let myself be duped. She assessed the doc to be a sociopath, but the therapy focused on how the relationship supposedly mirrored that of me and my Dad's. After 8 months of trying to see the light I gave up.
The first counselor, also pegged doc as a sociopath, but wanted to know why I was so needy. So now I've found a therapist who is a licensed social worker, and insurance is still debating whether they will cover her fees. A rep called to get more info and just doesn't understand why any old shrink won't do.
Post-landmark concentration syndrome
Posted by:
Hope
()
Date: December 15, 2003 12:58AM
Nope, Cosmo. Much of what the therapist tried to do wasn't accurate - far from it, and since the doctor did such a great job at deceiving me (and his med school, colleagues and state professional association) , the issue of how deep the deception went was not addressed, overlooked by focusing on codependency issues. I've beaten that dead horse enough. One visit with the LSW was so enlightening that all I could do was cry. She was able to help me understand the confusion and shock, which the other therapist didn't get. Unfortunately, can't afford to go to her, but we're working on changing the company policy on this, so who knows?
It is a great idea to have a directory of therapists skilled in this kind of treatment.
It is a great idea to have a directory of therapists skilled in this kind of treatment.
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