Hello everyone.

Back in June I finished my last LEC course. A few weeks later I started having nightmares involving specific moments during the advanced course. After the nightmares persisted, I contacted the center to inquire/complain. I'm sure you can all imagine the reactions I got. Here's a little sample:

"there's no brainwashing here. We don't harm people" (center manager)
"we're really UP for transforming the planet..." (FL Ria Bauhofer)
"rackets are everywhere" (FL Ria Bauhofer)
"you need to see a doctor, I don't know anything about nightmares" (center manager)
"You should do ILP!" (SELP "head coach")

Excuse me while I induce vomiting! These people aren't budging, I'm aware of that. Which is what brought me to this site. Recently, I've been fascinated by the meme threads. My whole argument to the head honchos at the center was that I'd been implanted with something that was reappearing in my dreams now that I'd stopped doing courses. They said, "Absolutely didn't happen." Reading the meme threads has helped to show me it DID happen. Has anybody else had post-LEC nightmares?

Another question I have is: Will this "technology" be implanted forever? Even though the nightmares have stopped, I can't get the "experience" out of my head. I question whether I'll ever stop thinking about LEC idiocy.

Any advice?

Dutch

Could you describe in detail your nightmares and the specific event that they are about?

hi gc4062,

thanks for your resonse. I've looked around the amsterdam area for survivors groups but can't find anything. LEC hasn't been here that long. I've also asked around with mental health pros' but nobody knows anything.

Question about your group: how do you keep it from being a rant-fest? Or is that the point? Just to get it off your chest and laugh at how we've been duped?

Your advice about cutting contacts with the center is well taken. I've already done that but something continues to baffle me. During my LEC time, I met plenty of likeable people. Sometimes i fight the urge to call the ones that have continued on into ILP/TMLP etc. to scream at them to WAKE UP! Bad idea, I know, but still.

Interesting thing about your response: if my experience with nightmares is fairly typical, certainly I can't be the first to complain. Could the center manager and FL I confronted be such expert liars or are they just as clueless as I was?

thanks again,

dutch

Dutch,

I vaguely remember someone in Holland speaking out about LEC years ago. I think he was in the mental health care profession.

I don't know if it ever gets out of your mind. It hasn't left mine and it's been years.

Contact a government agency that regulates health in your country and alert them.
There are efforts in Sweden and Denmark to get them ousted.

Guy

Hello templar,

about the nightmares. One of them was a loop that kept repeating itself in the dream. In reality, I arrived Sunday of the advanced course with a question about alternative dates (other than the two being offered.) for SELP. I was going skiing and just couldn't do the available dates. I asked one of the assistants, "are there more dates?" He said bluntly, "No." Then went into a diatribe about, "what is stopping you from making transformation an immediate possibility..." At the end of the day I signed up anyway (!) thinking I'll figure it out later. The next day I heard there WERE dates later in the year. I asked the center and was told, "we don't have leaders so those dates arent' confirmed yet." A blatant lie. Nice example of coercive persuasion too. At the time I knew it wasn't right but I buried it and kept going. In the nightmare, that situation had morphed into a never ending Q+A session with that same assistant. Whatever I asked he said NO and started ranting LECspeak. I remember asking things in the dream like, "can I eat? can I sleep?" NO. NO. I can still clearly picture that f***ers face and hear his tone of voice.

Creepy to think about but somehow helpful. I still dream about LEC a lot but not like I did in the summer. No more waking up screaming, sweating. Luckily.

Whaddya make of this?

Dutch

Hello Guy,

in your response you mentioned efforts in Sweden and Denmark to oust Landmark. I imagine that would involve a court of law. From everything I've read, fighting the LEC lawyers is an expensive and exhausting undertaking.

Or could it be done by other means?

about hypnosis. I read in one of your posts that you became aware of your own use of hypnotic methods during one of the courses. Unless you are a former FL, I assume that means the hypnosis took place during Forum in Action, SELP, or CAP/CPP. If so, could you be more specific about which exercises included hypnosis?

thanks,

Dutch

I would like to know more about the frequency of adverse mental reactions to Landmark. Even from reading literature critical of Landmark I didn't realize they were not rare--aside from being bummed about the money and the manipulation of course. However, I respect gc's word on this.

I do remember that I found est/Landmark upsetting for quite some time after I left. Five years later at the invitation of an acquaintance who was an Introduction Leader, my girlfriend and I attended an Introduction. I was trembling most of the time and wouldn't dare to ask a question or interact with the Landmark staff or graduates in that environment. I was surprised that I was able to handle the Forum and AC as well as I did. But then I've also done quite a lot of personal work since est.

One thing I have found quite helpful was NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming). Some here might distrust NLP practitioners since most of them lack degrees in psychology. However NLP practitioners are trained in hypnosis, curing phobias, and removing emotional triggers. Personally I think they would be better at removing the sort of conditioning that Landmark instills than most therapists. (Although the Cognitive therapy recommended in the meme thread would also be a good bet.)

Dutch,

You'll have to do the research on your own in Europe. This is just grapevine stuff to me.

The Germans handled Scientology as far as I know.

Other means???

Guy

hello guy,

thanks for the response.

Didn't mean to sound sinister with the 'other means' remark. I suppose I meant by using the media, or picketing, or some form of protest. I know there have been class action law suits in the US. Have any of them gone against Landmark?

GC 4062,

excellent feedback. thanks again. I'm getting a lot out of your responses.

dutch