Europe-girl, my knowledge is only just growing but from an outsiders perspective I'd say there are two main elements driving this LGAT:

1. Power - as in the guys on top wanting to control people, so as to do,
2. Money - which they will take readily from your purse to help you to overcome your problems.

Nearly everybody on the planet has some 'issue', large or small they are walking around with - but that doesn't mean it needs to be fixed. Often simply by amending dietry issues so many repeating patterns and bad memories or habits from the past will stop. But this approach won't generate the thousands per client that they want.

I'd suggest their (un)stated mission statement is something like:

To bring into the fold everybody that has a pulse and if they have money, take it from them and if they don't, to have them work for us at minimum wage or for free.

Once without any usefulness they are to be expunged from the fold.

Sorry to be obvious but there are many many examples of this in history -WWII Germany for one.

So don't blame yourself - you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and it could have happened to anybody.

Regards

Brian

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Europe-girl
Yeah, everything Sonnie-dee says I recognise. Listen, if they were talking plain bullsh*t that you could spot right away, do you think so many people fall for it? Do you think they sustain for so many years if it's so obvious? There is a real smart design to it, it's subtle, intelligent.
Especially when you've never heard of LGAT's, or Landmark or whatever - and you see all these happy people, why would you be suspicious?

The Co$ sends out groups of cheerful, well-dressed young people to cafes and shopping centers and instructs them to act as though they are very happy, laughing, and enjoying themselves. They know how this will play to a slightly-depressed, slightly worried audience. It's a recruitment scam.

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Now about the relationship between SOC and Landmark. Yes, they say there's no connection. They says this now, if you ask them, no?
Imagine you're in this wonderfull organization that only empowers you to live up to your possibility. You hear of this cult that believes people are from aliens. And you hear people are being held there against their will. And then "some people associate us with that cult". Of course you won't believe there's a connection.
To add to that you've learned that if you take a stand, if you're really up for something, you have a goal, then everything that initially comes up is "the not-goal". Things will happen to get you of track. So guess what the allegations of SOC are? It's a simple side-effect of some jealous (and wrong) group, because YOU are heading towards "a world that works for everyone".
Now see how subtle things can be?

LOL....

I've seen the same thing from religious people who believe that anyone who say something unflattering or even less-then-flattering about their church is speaking for the devil. They have ways of tuning critics out, sometimes by imagining them to be large rabbits speaking in rabbit-speak or internally singing some song to themselves so that they cannot hear the comments. They imagine themselves to cover their ears to shield themselves from "evil." The brainwashing has to be a collaboration at some point -- the victim has to maintain the brainwash himself for the game to continue. Something they don't want anywhere near their programs is a skeptic so, and though many victims are intelligent and educated, they are still self-selected to some degree. Seventy-five to eighty percent of the people who are lured into an "introduction to the Forum" don't sign up. The twenty to twenty-five percent who do have already given away some important information about themselves that the cult can use as leverage.


Ellen

Thanks Brian.

Yes Ellen, it's similar as some churches. And I also see a big similarity in SOC where they talk about supressing persons or something (someone who is not clear). On the account of Landmark I have to say I've never been taught there to look at a person as a threat or someone who is dangerous to me and should be avoided. People not doing Landmark/Est were more regarded upon as "not being enlighted", not dangerous but to be pittied.

Has anyone read the thread of Nettie, getting my life back after LGAT?
I find myself in a similar position, and I start to see why she started to unraffle all the "lessons" she got from Landmark.
Yesterday I discussed this with a friend and I think it's important to me to get clear on my way of thinking and viewing life. How much of it is Landmark, how much of it is me? Regarding the Landmark stuff: which things are beneficial, and which not?
I know I come across as someone who has her act together and is in control. I also set high standards for myself, and others... I sense I could loosen up some more and maybe I can do that by letting go of some of Landmark-teachings that don't serve me anymore.

Sonnie-dee, since you have done Landmark, how do you see it is effecting your life right now? What is positive, what is negative?
Maybe others would like to shine their light on this too.

For me it's not enough to simply assert that Landmark is a LGAT, I would like to see how it still plays a role in my life today.

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Europe-girl
Yesterday I discussed this with a friend and I think it's important to me to get clear on my way of thinking and viewing life. How much of it is Landmark, how much of it is me? Regarding the Landmark stuff: which things are beneficial, and which not?
I know I come across as someone who has her act together and is in control. I also set high standards for myself, and others... I sense I could loosen up some more and maybe I can do that by [b:96c8f05ad0]letting go of some of Landmark-teachings that don't serve me anymore[/b:96c8f05ad0].

Sonnie-dee, since you have done Landmark, how do you see it is effecting your life right now? [b:96c8f05ad0]What is positive, what is negative?[/b:96c8f05ad0]
Maybe others would like to shine their light on this too.

For me [b:96c8f05ad0]it's not enough to simply assert that Landmark is a LGAT[/b:96c8f05ad0], I would like to see how it still plays a role in my life today.

It would be interesting to see how Landmark plays a role in your life.

Do you feel confused? Your posts indicate someone struggling to come to terms with letting go of Landmark. Quite simply, Landmark is a LGAT. You could argue that going to school is large group awareness training. Beyond the surface, you'll see that there are huge differences between the structure of a typical school and a typical Landmark forum.

And, of course, you can argue that in every experience there is atleast a grain of positivity. This has been my experience to date. Comparing a list of PROs and CONs is a good start. Do more research to see the significance of your information. I think you'll see just how dirty Landmark is as large group awareness training.

I think you're still sitting on the fence. :roll:

Do you feel confused?

[i:fa84894e1a]Of course I'm confused, doesn't it show?[/i:fa84894e1a]

Your posts indicate someone struggling to come to terms with letting go of Landmark. Quite simply, Landmark is a LGAT. You could argue that going to school is large group awareness training. Beyond the surface, you'll see that there are huge differences between the structure of a typical school and a typical Landmark forum.

[i:fa84894e1a]I just argued that asserting Landmark is a LGAT (with all it's CON's) is not enough.[/i:fa84894e1a]

And, of course, you can argue that in every experience there is atleast a grain of positivity. This has been my experience to date. Comparing a list of PROs and CONs is a good start. Do more research to see the significance of your information. I think you'll see just how dirty Landmark is as large group awareness training.

I think you're still sitting on the fence. :roll:

[i:fa84894e1a]Just because I now see how Landmark operates, doesn't mean all's clear now. As you know all succesful LGAT's work with content that makes partly sense. Do you reckon I get any further with just throwing every bit of content out of the window? Have you been introdoctrinated this way? My instincts tell me the only way to get out of this in one piece is to retrace my steps, and be true to myself about what is valueble and what isn't. No-one can give me the answer on that but me.
I guess this "fence sitting" you sense, is the process you see going on. I am in the midst of a process, maybe you're not aware of that.
Also I distinguish (!) between people in Landmark who knowingly run this racket and people who honestly believe they're doing something good. I don't agree with them anymore, but I cannot judge them for something they are entirely unaware of (as was I).[/i:fa84894e1a]
[i:fa84894e1a]
The process I am in is by the way not a matter of weighing PRO's and CON's. It's assessing which of the things I've learned I see as complete bulsh*t, and which of the things make sense. Since I've not been involved with Landmark for a long time, I can spot some things that I actually consider as 'handy' and spot a lot of things I reject. As a matter of facts I've already done so in the past few years.
The reality of Landmark being a LGAT with alterior motives has sunken in only recently. That means adjusting. It also means taking another long, hard look at the things I've learned which I have incorperated and am no longer aware of.

If there's one thing I've learned from all of this, it is to trust my own instincts and to take the time I need and not get pressured. This forum is extremely helpful, but I'm not gonna make the same mistake and say I found a new "truth" and get absorped in a new movement: "anti-Landmark". It would be the other side of the same coin.

Maybe in the end I figure out there's nothing valueble regarding the contents. So be it, that's fine. I can only get to that point after some soul-searching for my self. Can you understand that?

And to be really clear, since I'm under the impression you're misunderstanding me: I'm not contemplating Landmarks tactics or it's way of indoctrinating people. I'm contemplating things as "inner dialogue", "responsibility" etc. I guess assessing those things will also enhance me coming to terms with the fact I was involved in a LGAT.[/i:fa84894e1a]

I'd like to add something to my posting.

"Do more research to see the significance of your information. I think you'll see just how dirty Landmark is as large group awareness training."

I think you're being presumptious as to where I stand. I've have been judged for years, and I'm not enjoying being judged here now by you. You know little about me. And it seems to me like you've never experienced what I'm going through first-hand. Consider that it might be easier watching it all from the sideline in stead of having to deal with it yourself.

I notice that a lot of people here haven't done any Landmark courses, yet have very strong opinions that 'everything' that Landmark teaches is 'bad'.

Having done the Forum myself, I think there is some really useful stuff in it. My problem is separating out the useful stuff from the crap. I also think there is an element of truth in Landmarkers assertions that you need to do the whole Curriculum to really get it. The forum itself really only touches on most of the subjects. But of course, after having done the whole curriculum, your soul then belongs to Landmark! :evil:

I'd suggest that before you completely dismiss the 'teaching', you do the Forum. I'd actually like to do it again myself, but this time looking closely at the way they manipulate people. It would make an interesting research project. I haven't yet worked out how to protect myself from the mind control. I wonder if tin foil wrapped tightly around my head would work?
:D

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I haven't yet worked out how to protect myself from the mind control. I wonder if tin foil wrapped tightly around my head would work?

LOL!!
Don't forget the earplugs, caffeine tablets and oxygen bottle! You'd make a believer in something out of the forum leader!
I can't get that picture out of my mind! :lol:

Mazellan, I have thought about that too, but then as a completion of the process I'm in. Right now I wouldn't trust myself for a bit, not getting sucked in again. But boy would I just like to sit in the back row and see with different eyes now what is going on.