elena -- Thanks for the reposting. I expect a strong focus on guests but I'm hoping it won't be "100%". Thought that may be the case. I remember that the est seminars after the Training had almost no content and were mostly about guests.

In the Forum and the Advanced Course I was pleased to notice that the "enrollment conversation" homework didn't have to be about Landmark. What I usually did on my breaks was to enroll my non-LM friends into having humorous conversations (often at LM's expense). At the end of the conversation I would ask them if they were "touched, moved and inspired" and they would say yes. I would return to "the room" having completed my assignment, laughed hard and been in a non-LM world--a real break in other words.

My plan at SELP is to participate without getting involved in Landmark marketing. I have a LM friend in the IFL program who says this can be done. It's when you get to the Leadership programs that you really have to get down and bring guests.

gc -- More great stuff! Thanks for the SELP run-down.

You wouldn't happen to remember if there were an opportunity to leave in the first SELP session? (For those who haven't attended LM programs there is usually an "opportunity to leave" the program with a full refund a few hours into the first session. Not always though. At the Advanced Course, this opporunity was intentionally excluded.)

What you say is discouraging. I really do hate to be dunned to bring guests, however attractive they may make it sound. One of the reasons I want to do SELP is to find out whether Landmark has changed much from est in this regard.

You and Guy are saying it hasn't. Yeah, I remember from est how important the numbers were and how blunt the staff and leadership got if those numbers were low.

It's all about the numbers.
Always has been and always will be.
It's a business and whatever it takes to fill those seats is fair game.
When you're selling nothing for something anything goes.
All that inspirational mumbo jumbo and sheer naked brilliance...piercing through... cynicism is just noise to get more paying customers.
We didn't change anything about the core business from est...we just changed how slickly we presented. We don't have to shock like we used to do. You're already half in the bag by the time you get through the front door.

You might find interesting the pages in Stephen Pressman's book, "Outrageous Betrayal," where he talks about Werner Erhard's days of trying different methods to motivate his squad of door-to-door salesmen and women (mostly women). (That was how his whole enterprise started, you know.) There was an expose recently on one of those news "magazine" shows in which someone went in with a hidden camera to film the motivational meetings salesmen attend before they go out into the field. There was another one in which someone went in with a hidden camera and filmed the people doing phone sales in what are referred to as "bucket shops." *Very revealing.* And probably all draw from the same "source," i.e., Werner Erhard and all the other high-pressure slicksters who went before him. There needs to be basic training in kindergarten or something on how these people operate and how to resist them.


Ellen

elena -- Yes, I've read and reread [u:62f9526510]Outrageous Betrayal[/u:62f9526510] a number of times. I know that side of the story. I keep hoping that there is something to salvage, that it's not all just a con and strip-mined idealism.

>We didn't change anything about the core business from est...we just
>changed how slickly we presented. We don't have to shock like we
>used to do.

Guy -- So what is it all about? I don't believe it's about the money. Maybe that comes later. My impression is that it's about mindshare--getting as many people to take Landmark. God help me, I think a lot of them are sincere--that they are working for the transfromation of life itself as best they know how.

Seriously, Guy, what keeps the Landmark staff and inner circle motivated? They work incredibly hard. They say they do it for service and I don't entirely discount that.

Hi All,

The progression of this thread onto the SELP, (Self Expression and Leadership), course has been quite timely. I thank everyone for supplying so much valuable information.

As an update, I am making progress with Jane and this would not have happened if it were not for this website and the people who have contributed to this thread and others - Thank you so much.

I am now studying exit methodology and trying to find local professionals to help as Jane is now willing. Two things have come to my mind to assist people in the education process:

1. Establishing a thread per Landmark course ie: a) Forum & Forum In Action; b) Advanced C) SELP d) Communication Ciriculum etc.

2. Establishing a Thread containing all jargon. This would include all words where meanings are manipulated and including the Landmark translated definition: Racket; Truth; Abstraction, Stable Datum; Self; Identity, acknowledge, appreciate etc, and the main Werber & landmark trainer phrases such as:
"Taking a stand that you are the stand you take".
I had a huge learning experience with Jane this week where I discovered that her meaning for the word "Truth" had been altered. I realised that if I substituted the word "perception" everywhere she said the word "Truth", I got the meaning of her sentence.

Hey, this is a lot of work I admit but it would help a relative newcomer understand what is coming next as you see your loved one move along the course conveyer belt.

I am now full of hope but am aware that her re-adjustment to rational thought is somewhere in the future. I am just thankful she wants out.

Thankyou all,
Oz

Concerned Oz,

It sounds like she's hit the downhill side already.
Hang in there with her.
She'll be experiencing a lot of up and down emotions after exiting.

Guy

Jack,

How do I say it more plainly to you.

It's all about the numbers.

I know you don't want to hear that.

Sincerety is not the issue. People can be sincere about all kinds of misdirected pursuits. I was sincere when I was there.
I thought it was about service too.

Then I learned differently.
How do you think it felt finding out what was going on there?

We could get people to think and feel all kinds of things to get them through the doors.

Just like we get you to think and feel all kinds of things to get you back in there.

No one and I really mean no one likes to think or feel like they've been duped.
LEC counts on that human reaction to keep us from thinking critically about what has happened.

Maybe you think you're above all that and that you're untouchable, aware, and protected.

You're not.

You'll look for all the reasons why I am wrong and why you're right. That is only a protection mechanism. You must defend your decision making skills otherwise you will doubt everything you do in life. That is far too threatening to your psyche.

If you are wrong and I am right then you've been duped not once but twice. How would you count on your "abilities" you think you have for discernment.
So you must defend LEC to protect your psyche. That's the catch.

No room.

Guy -- Actually you don't know what I want to hear, and I'm tired of people here and in the Landmark group mindreading me. Frankly you're handling me the same way the Landmark people are. "You'll look for all the reasons why I am wrong and why you're right."

What I would like to hear is specifics about what goes on at the staff level that you were privy to.

I know the numbers are a big hairy deal--far, far more than the participants clapping in all those carefully arranged rows are aware. Yup. I know that.

What are the numbers for? Money, power, transformation, world domination? What were you and what are other Landmark staff thinking about, talking about?

Jack,

No mindreading going on here.
How can you be tired of something that can not occur?

I've told you it's about the numbers.
You said "? I don't believe it's about the money."

Numbers=money.
Simple.
Do I need to say it again?

The specifics have been stated over ad nauseum. Read posts over at alt.fan.landmark over the years.

It doesn't matter what I or GC were thinking when we were doing what we were doing. We were duped as well. We all thought we were a team for "transformation". The only thing getting transformed is your cash into their cash.

Get it?

"...you're handling me the same way..."
Of course, Jack, I wasn't kidding about being employed to do their dirty work.
:eek: