Hi All,

Can anyone supply me with course information and details on the "Landmark Advanced" 4 day 56 hour Course and Forum "In Action" 10 Tuesday Night Courses?

I am writing from Sydney, Australia and my friend whom I will call "Jane" has been involved extensively with Landmark since late September. She has completed the "Forum" and "Advanced Courses and has completed 8 of the 10 Tuesday Night "In Action" Course which finishes later this month.

She now holds duel values and beliefs and her behaviour is contrary to what she held just 6 weeks ago. I shall not go into details other than to say I find it hard to recognise her. I treat her with love but its breaking my heart.

Can anyone give a detailed account of the 4 day Advanced Course and the "In Action" Course?

Thanks - I am beside myself with grief.

yeah the advanced course is when all the shadowy sales people swoop in to make their big sales. During the previous courses they have either been "moderators" seated at the back of the room recording participants valuable personally information, or privy to the moderators "notes". I met five people from the advanced course and they all had one thing in common- they had just recently acquired their 'dream' homes. I realized there were secret salesmen opperating, swarming on emotionally unstable participants and selling them big tickets items (such as dream homes, dream vacations, and loans, and probably many other 'breakthroughs' I'm not aware of) during the advanced LMF courses. read my reply at the bottom of the "Question for Guy Falkes- Man who came in from the cold" page.

The subtitle of a book written in the 1970s about these groups is, "America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change." (The title is "Snapping.") The authors, Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman, give specific references to est, the precursor to Landmark, which are, I believe, removed from subsequent editions of the book. The "Advanced Course" is probably where the heavy-duty indoctrination goes on. Anyone who continues to sign up for more programs has proven themselves vulnerable to manipulation and control. Potential slave labor, so to speak.

Sudden personality change was something that characterised victims from the beginning. These groups use sophisticated and potent techniques to reorder, derange, disturb, and in some cases destroy what was normal functioning in certain more vulnerable or impressionable people. They are psychological con artists and as sleazy as they get.

Landmark and est figure prominantly in almost every book, essay, article, and study concerning cults and cult mind control written in the last 30 years. This is no Johnny-come-lately organisation. They have had a long history in manipulating, exploiting, and abusing people that has come down from various religious "conversion" tactics, influence tactics, persuasion tactics, door-to-door sales techniques, pyramid schemes, group psychology, propaganda, advertising and public relations tricks.

What puzzles me is the success these idiots have with the "awareness" equivalent of high pressure telemarketing or "network marketing" or time-share condo sales tricks. (They call it "tech," or "technology.") It's really the bottom of the barrel of salesmanship. (If there is a bottom. Or a top.)

Be careful with your friend. She has been programmed to disbelieve anything you say of a negative or critical nature about the organisation. Educate yourself and keep your distance. Align yourself with her friends or family who are not involved with Landmark. It may be awhile.

Best to you,

Ellen

What's the scientific concept about the logical existance of something meaning it probably does? What better "hunting grounds" for those predatory salesmen than the grandiose and fragile egos of Landmark, as those prone to mood disorders are propelled into a Landmark induced mania? Sickening, but logical. Just so much fleecing of the flock.

There needs to be a follow-up to "Outrageous Betrayal." One that could put Landmark on the map in the new millenium as that book and the "60 Minutes" episode did in the 90s. Have you seen the footage of the various doctors and dentists telling about how the front group for scientology called Sterling Management took over and ruined their businesses? On one hand it is laughable these otherwise intelligent people fell for this nonsense. You could make a sit com if more people understood the phenomenon. On the other hand is the tragedy of well-meaning and hard working people having their lives destroyed. Scientology is the worst type of parasite. The type that kills the host upon which it feeds. Landmark, more intelligently, allows its victims to survive, draining them slowly and more cruelly over time.


Ellen






yeah the advanced course is when all the shadowy sales people swoop in to make their big sales. During the previous courses they have either been "moderators" seated at the back of the room recording participants valuable personally information, or privy to the moderators "notes". I met five people from the advanced course and they all had one thing in common- they had just recently acquired their 'dream' homes. I realized there were secret salesmen opperating, swarming on emotionally unstable participants and selling them big tickets items (such as dream homes, dream vacations, and loans, and probably many other 'breakthroughs' I'm not aware of) during the advanced LMF courses.

Hi Ellen, GC4062 & Normal Guy,

Thanks for your concern and kindness. The info on the key measurables of the trainers is frightening.I have taken action on most of your advice but in the short term, its now 8 weeks, Jane has become more involved and has integrated her existing life with Landmark. Our communication is now next to zero which I believe happens to Spouses and those romantically involved. I am just to emotionally close. I am seeking counselling and would advise same for others in my position. However, I can't find a professional to who can really empathise with me - my problem.

Ellen - I will follow up with 60 Minutes locally.

My and Jane's background is mainstream christian. Some people may not agree with the following but I have done some independent research and also through the Church. It seems that there is a demonic link - ie: Alister Crowley, (Satinst of the 1940s), Ron L Hubbard, Scientology, Werner, Est, Landmark. At play here is Deception, Dispair and a host of others. Truth and Hope are the remedies.

I have also discovered that a few local churches of differing denominations have been infiltrated by Landmark and their leaders are advocates. I am talking Penticostal to Catholic

If anyone reading this prays, please pray for Jane to see the Truth and return to freedom as well as all other people her her position. Please pray also for me and all those who have someone lost in Landmark. There must be a few million.

Thanks to you all and any other info, advice or comfort is much appreciated.
Oz.

Concerned Oz,

There is a website called [www.CSJ.org] that has a lot of info about cults, mind control and resources from professionals involved in cult recovery. They might be able to put you in touch with someone in Australia.

Also Jan Groenveld's site. (Sadly, she has died, but there are others keeping up the site.)


[www.caic.org.au]



Ellen

This thread is a little weird.

You don't have to make up extraneous connections to get across that what LEC and other organizations do is use hypnosis and other mind control techniques to garner and maintain recruits.

If you think wagging the "satanic" finger gives your argument credibility, then you're standing on weak ground. There isn't a church standing that has not had that finger wagged at them.

We weren't the only game in town using those techniques...look at other organizations using "belonging" or "fulfillment" as their product.

Wow. Great job, gc4062. I just took the Advanced Course a couple weeks ago and you nailed it pretty well. Plus I like the matter-of-fact tone of your posting.

I'm an old est graduate (1977-1983) who burned out on the guest game. I returned to Landmark on good word of mouth from friends and curiousity. Boy, they can still do the job! At times I was practically rolling in the aisles from the sheer naked brilliance of the Leader in piercing through even my cynicism.

I've already signed up for SELP, the final program in the Curriculum for Living. I feel like Fox Mulder in the X-Files with that "I WANT TO BELIEVE" poster. We'll see how it goes.

In the meantime I'm glad this forum exists and I'll continue to read it.

Guess your "cynicism" wasn't all that flexible, warranted, or accurate. (Was the old est rigidity its fatal flaw?) Perhaps this little exchange between a couple of Landmark enthusiasts in another newsgroup will resurrect some of it:



From: billyxxxxxx
Subject: Re: The SELP Commercial
Newsgroups: alt.fan.landmark
Date: 2003-11-19 10:36:15 PST


I got through the SELP though never really finished my "project". I
think that the SELP is a good place to test out the tech, but there
was so much of the bad trappings of Landmark present that it became
harder and harder to concentrate on the project you chose. You can
ignore the constant pleas to get people into the forum. I just told
them I wasn't interested in that. Or I lied to them outright to get
them off my backs making up names and then not having anyone show up.
Some of the projects that people did were actually pretty good though
I imagine they could have done them without the help of the SELP
environment just as well assuming they could stay motivated. The other
annoying thing is that the sales pitch doesn't end with SELP. They
want you to sign up for something else, CAP, etc...I told them no
outright and didn't back down. On "graduation" night they still kept
pestering me. I made up some kind of a lie and got through the night.
After a few months they stopped calling me.


(Siam) wrote in message
> >Subject: The SELP Commercial
> >Date: 11/14/2003 10:59 AM Pacific Standard Time

> >For those that don't know, SELP is the final in the curriculum for living.
> >It
> >stands for Self-Expression and I think Leadership Program. This course is
> >the
> >ultimate in Landmark to get you to advertise their company.
> >
> >There is a very good reason it is the last course and it is only $200 for a 4
> >month gig. They are getting the best bang for your buck here since it the
> >course is 100% about you advertising and marketing Landmark.
> >
> >They will tell you it is about transforming your world. It is about
> >transforming your friends and family into Landmark.
> >
> >At this point in the curriculum, people have already brought guests to
> >Landmark. This is the last hope on the chain that maybe those that have been
> >resistant to talk about Landmark will have to do it, since the 'project' you
> >do
> >is so intergrated with Landmark.
> >
> >Everything really starts to get tied into bringing others. The SELP leader
> >is
> >an assistant who is dying to make it to FL. The number of people that come
> >in
> >via SELP is 100% how they are judged if they are worthy to move up.
> >
> >Just realize this when you do this course. In the Forum, there isn't nearly
> >as
> >much advertising. It reaches a crescendo near the end. They also know that
> >most of the people will never come back to Landmark so this is their last
> >chance to ring some guests out of them.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >
> This really is the one course I wish I had never done. I actually dropped out
> near the end when I realized it was a complete hoax. So technically, I am not
> even a grad of the whole program. I am a drop-out. Lol.
>
> I did it because I figured I got this far, why not complete the whole thing.
> My instincts told me there was a reason this course was so cheap and what the
> 'project' was all about.
>
> They push it hard during the Advanced Course. You feel like you want to
> complete it the whole program and they did it at the perfect time during the
> AC.
>
> I think the experience was tremendously valuable just to learn how effective
> they are at selling. Copy them. Realize at times how they manipulate you.
> Don't do that. Realize how others are trying to manipulate and don't fall for
> it.
>
> Criticize them. They can take it. They will adjust. I spoke my mind about
> SELP. Maybe they will make adjustments.
>
> Cheers

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