Has anyone heard of this guy and his group? My sister has recently become involved with them, flying all over the country to attend seminars, quitting her job and leaving her husband. She moved in with another follower and plans to move to Arizona to be closer to this guy and the group's HQ. She also now thinks she's a "healer." Any information would be helpful (I've already seen the group's website, but that's all I can find on them so far). Thanks.

(When doing a google search, dont forget to click the 'groups' tab and do a search of the various google listserves. Sometimes you'll get information that way. In this case, the only info I got was a very complimentary report).

First, it is very possible that your sister is responding to someone who has some genuine ability to energize people, and foster a group environment where amazing shifts in consciousness take place.

The problem is, charisma is a neutral quality. It has nothing to do with whether someone is honest or dishonest. A person may be able to jazz people up, give them extraordinary experiences. But that same person may or may NOT be able to provide the information, or guidance needed so people can deal with all this new energy without losing their health, sanity, or abandoning people who rely on them for care. Its one thing to jazz people up. Its another thing to help people make sense of their newfound energy and keep their feet on the ground.

WJ does sound highly charismatic.

Find out what WJ's background is--what kind of training did he get? Was he involved with any groups that do trance induction? Did he study with gurus who had manipulative track records? Did he become a teacher after a very brief period of training? Did he sample lots of traditions without long term accountability to any one of them?.

Find out if Weston Jolly energizes people, and leaves them disoriented, or whether he's able to provide non-exploiative, responsible assistance so people become enegized a and stay grounded.

Other questions:

1) Does WJ encourage people to break up relationships? (Other kinds of gurus dont want your money but they do want to stay excited, so they want you to get jazzed up too, so they can surf on your energy)

2) Or is WJ well intentioned but naive about the scope of his influence?

(IMHO, no one should be a leader if they are naive about the effect their charisma is having on followers--its like driving a car when you dont know how)

Its the difference between a party host who pressures people to get drunk so he can rob them while asleep, and a friendy but naive host who provides booze, but doesnt screen guests or monitor the party, with the result that some guests get drunk and get into trouble on their own initiative.

A responsible host monitors the party, turns away potential troublemakers, and will confiscate car keys/call the cops if he sees that someone is plastered and trying to get into a car to drive home.

[b:7901a748b9]A charismatic leader has a similar responsiblity in relation to his or her ability to jazz people up. [/b:7901a748b9]

You cant keep people from hurting themselves under the influence of your booze or your charm, but you should make [i:7901a748b9]a reasonable effort [/i:7901a748b9]to do so--

like saying 'Dont quit your day job, and dont dump your loved ones--especially if you are raising young children. Spirituality is not about running away from your day to day responsibilities'

There are charismatics who directly abuse their powers and the ones who are well intentioned, really and truly want to help, but dont know how to use their powers responsibly. Its the difference between exploitative intent vs naive, but possibly criminal negligence. People can get just as drunk on charisma as on booze.

In either case, followers can get hurt.

The question to ask is whether a leader's use of charisma is pro-social or anti-social--whether it enriches people's lives and relationships, or whether it disrupts their lives and relationships.

If you want to learn how charismatic leaders are created and how they become gurus, the best book is Prophetic Charisma, by Len Oakes. You can get it on amazon.com

Oakes notes that in the end, most people eventually leave the charismatic leader. Its rare for anyone to stay for more than 5 years. The problem is, charismatic leaders tend to become increasingly isolated and unrealistic over time, and the risks increase for followers who insist on clinging to the leader at all costs. According to Oakes, most followers leave after it becomes clear that the leader does not care about their welfare but only about his fantasies.

The more sacrifices the follower has made to follow the charismatic leader, the greater the burden of unconscious repressed doubt the follower carries, for she anxiously scans the leader to make sure the leader and group have remained worthy of the sacrifices the follower has made. Eventually, most leaders become unable to 'deliver the goods'-- according to Oakes, many charismatics are gifted but have stunted psychological development and cannot share power or cope with peer relationships. Eventually they get exhausted and the mask begin to slip.

Do all you can to stay in contact with your sister and make it clear you love her and will not say 'I told you so' if she ever has doubts and wants to come home--either for a break, or permanently.

Key thing is if you sister leaves, eventually she will need to face what in her was triggered by WJ--charismatic leaders dont operate in isolation. They get us fired up because something in us is 'tinder-dry' and we do not know it.

If your sister wants money for medical care or other expenses, I recommend an arrangement where you find out where she's getting her health care and pay the doctor or dentist directly, otherwise she may insist on giving the money to the group instead of taking reasonable care of herself.

If she wants to leave, go there and meet her in person--if you send money for a plane ticket, someone in the group may try to talk her out of it.

Or you can say you got hit by an economic set back, not send her money, and instead, put money aside in a savings account for her for when she gets out and needs to re-establish herself.

Get the Len Oakes book. It will help you make some sense of all this. Oakes was in a commune that later imloded. He left before the crisis hit and became a research psychologist. He gives a unique 'former insider's perspective on how and why people become leaders of these groups and why they join--and the burden of pain they carry when they leave.

And be patient. We had an inquiry last summer about a group no one ever heard of, that had no data on the internet. Within 7 months, one or two former followers provided information, and created a useful profile for others to use.

Good luck, both for you and your sister.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. You have offered me a lot of useful information that I will follow up on.

Unfortunately, my sister has cut off contact with her family and friends. She will not tell anyone exactly where she is, so we cannot locate her. She leaves an occasional message on my parents' answering machine, which is how we know anything at all about her. Through these messages, we know she plans to move to Arizona with another follower imminently.

She is unquestionably funnelling a great deal of money into this group. I fear that she will lose everything to it. I have e-mailed Weston Jolly about this situation, but unsurprisingly, I have received no response. I suppose he's happy that the cash keeps rolling in, regardless of the toll it takes on her or our family.

I find it hard to believe that the only information on this group is positive - I stand squarely in the camp of the negative.

I can see why you're scared for your sister. WJ now knows via your e-mail that your sister is compromising her financial welfare and her loved ones are scared for her.

Document everything.

Consult a lawyer and consider sending WJ a registered letter. Otherwise he or his office staff could say they never got the e-mail.

If a certain bar or nightclub generates too many brawls and shootouts, the police can close it down as a nuisance.

If a 'healer' or spiritual teacher is getting people intoxicated on subtle energy and too many of his followers end up disoriented, destitute or estranged from their families, it doesnt matter how powerful that teacher is, his powers are creating an unacceptable amount of suffering and chaos--among his students,and among those who love his students and are affected by their behavior.

We are not lone entities. If a student/seeker is harmed it isnt just that one person who suffers; harm ripples out to that students friends and family, and especially if the student has abandoned young children to follow the guru.

Mr Jolly may say he has good intentions but thats where it is so easy to kid ourselves.

It takes time for information to reach cyberspace. Many people who are ripped off are so ashamed that they hate thinking back about what happened, so they clam up. Or they're so disoriented or in denial that they cant sort out what happened.

There is a chance that Jolly, with the best of intentions, got your sister all excited, and she got addicted to him, and decided to run away from home. He truly may not know what she's done.

Still, a really responsible teacher will remind people to stay grounded, especially someone working with subtle energies. And if a student is getting TOO excited, a skilful mentor finds ways to calm the student down, just as a responsible party host or bartender will call a cab driver to take you home, if you're too intoxicated to drive.

I went to Google, clicked the groups tab, then selected the advanced search option.

I typed Weston Jolly into the exact phrase slot, and Arizona into the all words slot and this is the only thing I got. (You may find this testimony infuriating and distressing. Try to remember that many people thrill to power, and who do not know how tell whether the power is being used responsibly)

[www.google.com]

I dont know if you have any way to put your sister's funds in some kind of legal conservator ship for her own protection. If anyone in the family planned to put her in thier wills, they should, as long as she's in Jolly's group, specify that her inheritance must go into a conservatorship--if that is legally feasible.

Given what you've mentioned in your second post, it sounds like your sister is really 'flying high.'

I There are people who have the ability to trigger subtle energy surges and induce various kinds of blissful states--its an area that Western science doesnt yet have the tools to study, but someday will. This ability is in no way tied to whether the person has integrity. In the West, we hear about or witness special powers and assume that someone who has this talent is holy. This triggers all kinds of rescue fantasies and we are instantly enthralled.

The sad truth is that crooks can learn to give energy surges and induce bliss experiences, not just saints.

It is very possible that Weston Jolly knows how to jazz people up, but from the way he has encouraged your sister to behave, it looks as though WJ is using his powers irresponsibly and 'getting people drunk'. No responsible healer will ever encourage a student to ditch her prior commitments, hand over all her money and get her to believe, after minimal experience that 'she too is a healer.'

A responsible energy-worker would know that intoxication is a hazard in this line of work and would know to ask, 'You're offering me all this money. Where is it coming from? How does your family feel about this?' Excited, intoxicated people need to be protected from themselves. A bartender understands this and so should a true energy-worker.

This article describes problems when people get addicted to subtle energy when it is provided by an unskilled or unethical person

[www.google.com]

This was by a man who was jolted by a blast of subtle energy administered by an unethical guru. 'Habib' was badly upset and disoriented and needed some aftercare from his own teacher.

[www.google.com]

It would be very interesting to know which gurus or teachers Weston Jolly studied with before setting up his own shop. The ability to trigger energy surges can be taught, and the reason why it is important to find out which teachers someone has studied with is that unethical teachers (or unskilled ones) usually only study with other crooks. Honest teachers screen their applicants carefully and avoid taking on unstable or dishonest people as students.

In the United States, 'gurus' who manipulated subtle energy and got people hooked on this sort of thing were Muktananda (founder of Siddha yoga and now deceased) and his successor Gurumayi (SYDA yoga), a deceased guru named Rudrananda, who trained Chetananda, and possibly Adi Dam who has also been known as Da Free John, Avadhoota, and who was originally named Paul Franklin Jones. There are reports that Yogi Bhajan (3HO) has also known how to jazz people up in this way.

If Weston Jolly has any of these names in his 'spiritual resume' that may indicate where he learned his methods from.

Reading the Len Oakes book may help prepare you in case you meet Jolly in person--and I would advise caution if you are thinking of doing this.

Subtle energy is like a powerful drug--either you dispense that drug like a good physician, only when someone needs it, and in careful dosages, monitoring for side effects and avoiding addiction, or you dispense it like a dope pusher who just wants power and doesnt care what happens to people.

THe thing is, your sister is responding to a real power, but one that is perhaps being used unskillfully.

You might try and find out which newspapers cover the Sedona area, and see if a local journalist is interested in your story. Do some background checks on the journalist to make sure he or she has a good reputation. And only mention (by e-mail, in person or in writing)what you are willing to see in print. Keep copies of all interview material because no editor ever gives permission to have interview transcripts read back to you.

Sedona is a big gathering place for this sort of thing. Ive fantasized that anyone who buys the local taxi drivers a round of drinks could find out the secrets of most of the gurus and ashrams in that area, quite quickly.

If you wonder why people are enthralled by someone who comes across as conceited and boundlessly confident, the reason is, they are dazzled because the guru's grandiosity is putting them in touch with their own inner horizons--something good in themselves they dont know how to access any other way. [i:ffc0510a58]They are having a relationship with themselves, because the guru embodies their deepest hope for themselves. When people defend the guru, they are really defending their deepest hopes for themselves. THey dont know how to tap that level of themselves except through the personality of the guru. [/i:ffc0510a58]Its like a drug.

For your sister to give up her illusions about Weston Jolly will mean painfully coming down to earth, losing a cherished hope she had for herself. That will hurt like hell, and she must not be told, 'We told you so.'

She will be in more pain than you can imagine. Do what you can to prepare yourself so that if she comes home, you can embrace her and be there for her. She will need love, but very wise loving.

Dear PJ this article is about an entirely different group than the one your sister is in. But it has some highly insightful observations that could perhaps tie in with what you have described of your sister's behavior in relation to Weston Jolly

[culteducation.com]

'Like many other religious and/or New Age movements, IYI often attracts people that are drifting, stressed out and/or unhappy about their lives. Those who may be looking for answers, but also that are very often looking for an escape.'

Swami Satchidananda,.. was very careful not to explicitly tell people what to do...He merely encouraged his followers to pursue their selfish and often irresponsible pursuits. Satchidananda told them to listen to their "inner voices" and meditate on something to "know thyself," etc.

This subtle tactic was in the interest of his Yoga community, specifically to effectively garner more "full-time workers" to run the place.

But of course Satchidananda would not say, "Well, it's good that you want to be a part of our community, but what about your responsibilities at home?"

'His devotees claimed that he didn't ever ask for these "devotions" and whatever they did, it was because they wanted to. He was simply like a spoiling parent, indulging their whims.'

In your sister's case, if Weston Jolly is using his charisma responsibly, IMO he would tell her what she needs to hear, not what she wants to hear.

IMO part of a responsible use of charisma would be for the charismatic to tell students, that real spiritual work is most often done at home, in relation with family, friends and coworkers, and that it doesnt mean breaking people's hearts by vanishing without a trace.

IMO if someone were to offer an ethical charismatic large sums of money, he or she would not take the money. He or she would say,

'What does your family say about this? WHo will take care of you if you get sick or in your old age? You need to talk to a certified financial planner and make sure you and your family's finances are taken care of before you offer such large sums of money to us--or to anyone else.'

The best teachers and leader prefer that no one member give excessively large sums of money, precisely because it upsets the power balance in a community or group, when just a few persons are mega-donors. Favoritism can crop up.

We had a parish priest who had to raise funds to repair the building and he told us 'Some of you have already been more than generous. I dont want you giving any more money. We have all kinds of ways we can raise funds for repairs, and I do not want any members of the parish to give more than their fair share. It would destablize our sense of community, creates power imbalances, and no sum of money is ever worth that.'

I am a former client of this man, Weston Jolly, and I gave him a lot of money for over 2 years.

During this time, I got to know him quite well, on many levels. Eventually, I saw certain things that caused me to end my association with him.

Although this discussion topic started years ago, WJ is still doing his "inspirational speaker" thing. There are certain things I've come to know about WJ, which I didn't see at first. I would like to share information that would have benefitted me to know, when I first met WJ.

Corboy, some of your guesses are off the mark, while others are so on the mark it's scary. Allow me to loosely comfirm/add a few points:

In my experience...

- WJ absolutely has genuine ability to energize people, foster a group environment and give them extraordinary experiences. This is WJ's business card, sales pitch, hook, line and sinker. WJ has completely mastered this and his followers usually describe him as "incredible", "awesome", and other similar words.
- WJ does not know how to guide people to deal with all this new energy. He claims it is not his responsibility.

- WJ often predicts great things that are about to happen for a person, inspiring that person to look forward to these dreams-come-true with a lot of excitement. In the end, said "great things" never happen. By the time the now-confused client comes asking for an explanation, WJ has prepared another "great things" prediction, generating a new wave of excitement. WJ is very skilled at using this strategy to keep a person's attention (read: income) over a long period of time. By the time the person runs out of ideas & energy to pursue those ideas, WJ has found somebody else to repeat the cycle, and disposes of the original person like a used soda can.

- WJ regularly encourages people to break up their relationships - including with family and long-standing friendships. He will recommend actions that incite drama in a person's relationships, then suggest the drama is proof the relationship is not working.

- I do not consider WJ part of the well intentioned yet naive camp. He spent too many years associating with the motivational speaker circuit, and is well versed in that circuit's more shady marketing aspects. This is a background he does not mention in his bio. In fact, WJ hardly ever talks about his background at all.

- I find the following quote very interesting, as it is fairly accurate of WJ:

"The more sacrifices the follower has made to follow the charismatic leader, the greater the burden of unconscious repressed doubt the follower carries, for she anxiously scans the leader to make sure the leader and group have remained worthy of the sacrifices the follower has made. Eventually, most leaders become unable to 'deliver the goods'-- according to Oakes, many charismatics are gifted but have stunted psychological development and cannot share power or cope with peer relationships. Eventually they get exhausted and the mask begin to slip."

- One key here is, "Eventually, most leaders become unable to 'deliver the goods'." I have experienced this many, many times with WJ...to great frustration bordering on loss of sanity.
- The other key here is "cannot ... cope with peer relationships." WJ is extremely uncomfortable in such a situation.

Here are more thoughts:
- WJ often boasts about how powerful he is, and how "off the charts" his abilities are. He makes these claims to great effect, among his supporters.
- WJ says a lot of things to demonstrate great effect among his supporters.

- WJ has a group of 20-30 regulars, generally very nice people, each of whom books frequent personal sessions, and attends 4-8 events per year (in Arizona, California and an annual trip to Hawaii). Most attendees, at any WJ event, are part of this group of regulars. A few newcomers told me it felt cultish and made them uncomfortable, how every WJ event had the same people in attendance.

- WJ will ask & convince others to trust him 100%, making them feel they are being expertly guided. WJ will then give little if any actual guidance. When things fall apart, WJ will say something like, "You're the one who chose for things to turn out this way."

- WJ does not run an "ashram" or any kind of full-time facility. He has no full-time volunteers, or employees. The organization consists of WJ and his wife.
- WJ charges a lot of money for his services and products. $200 for a 1-hour in-person session, $175 for admission to a 1-day group workshop, $30 for a calendar...


Again, these are observations, based on my own experience.

As I type this, I find myself wondering why I followed this man for so long.

Weston claims to be a teacher, able to take a person "all the way" along the spiritual path. I was looking for exactly this kind of teacher, for if there are a half-dozen people alive on this planet who are truly serious, I am one of them. WJ's abilities to impress impressed even me, so I followed through - to the best of my ability - everything WJ even hinted at. Now, much later, I can claim, with 100% integrity, that WJ's assertion, about being such a teacher, is not true.

I worked toward several projects that WJ recommended and assured would be "very successful". After pouring in sacrifices in time, money, emotion, and even more money funneled to WJ, not a single one of these projects was successful, not in the slightest bit. Time and again, WJ offered no explanation. He only offered a new goose trail to chase.

On the positive side, WJ does provide a feeling of emotional support, which yes did serve me at times. Some of his observations are very accurate. And again, his events produce this feeling of "incredible" which is very impressive.

Over the long term, WJ's support does not last, and as with any codependent relationship, more and more "short-term fix" is required until the thing cannot sustain itself in the present form. At this point, WJ will quit, and look for somebody else, with whom to repeat the same pattern.

---------------------------------------------

Obviously, I do not trust this man, nor do I have many good things to say about him, for he made certain commitments to me, major commitments, and then broke those commitments.

I strongly advise anybody who takes advice from this man to take anything he says with a HUGE pile of salt. Many of the esoteric insights he "channeled" to me turned out to be flat-out wrong. So much of his advice, when followed, turned out to be completely disastrous.

WJ is not an evil man, just incompetent. Behind all the smoke and mirrors, he simply does not know how to guide a person from A to B. I hope you can recognize and learn the easy way, and not have to learn it the hard way like I did.

If you would like more information, please feel free to email me. My email is my username at gmail.

Jason

Thank you Jasonwisdom for speaking up. I too feel like a fool for following this man for so long. I was looking for the real thing spiritually as well but time and again I was let down by WJ however I always tried to give him n excuse in my mind... I left my family in search of my own selfish desires and ruined relationships...I agree I don't think he is evil just incompetent.