Current Page: 3 of 6
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: glam ()
Date: December 08, 2006 08:55AM

Well, I've already pretty much expressed that I think Trooper is a troll.

He's barely posted here, but somehow last year went from thinking his Landmark girlfriend was "drinking the kool-aid" and supposedly attending a meeting with her that made him feel uncomfortable to, very quickly, pointing out all the great things Landmark did for her....then almost nothing for a year and a half, and lo and behold, suddenly he's here with no mention of why he changed his mind, doing the Forum himself...and liking it.

No mention of the long hours, no mention of the plants who were undoubtedly doing a lot of the "sharing" he found so touching (though he's had a year and a half to look up these things). He was relaxed throughout the Forum, had plenty of time to crack open a beer AND post here AND do his "homework" before getting up early the next day...not awfully concerned about a girl who supposedly fell ill and had to be rushed to the hospital...

Honestly, it sounds like he cobbled together other people's accounts to sound "fair" at the beginning, though of course overall his review of Landmark is positive.

Glam

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: elena ()
Date: December 08, 2006 08:59AM

Quote
mazellan

Overall, my assesment:
Shallow and superficial (but 'that' concept is explored in great depth in the xxx course, only $500!), meaningless jargon loaded, some interesting tools and insights, annoying hard sell, really nothing that can't be gotten from a few well chosen books.


You nailed 'em, mazellan. In a nutshell.

Which "few well chosen books" would you recommend?


Quote

But a great sense of 'belonging' to a loving 'family'


Ah yes...

Get those "primal" hooks in. That's how they do it: just present a "facsimile" of a happy, loving family that so many wish they'd had and then line up the girls to take the checks. That is the lure of cults for so many and they know how to leverage it into $$$. Shameless bunch of scammers. They know the lonliest will pony up thousands for that imaginary "happy family" and once the hooks are in they can be played indefinitely. Too bad the "happy loving family" is just a ring or gang of psycho-con-artists. The predatory nature of this stuff is just glaringly obvious when you know what their ~game~ really is.


Ellen

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: glam ()
Date: December 08, 2006 08:59AM

Oh, and there's his post from 08-29-2005, more than a year ago...

Quote

I think if you familiarize with the philosophy and psychology behind the forum, then you'll probably escape unscathed .. Who knows, you might even make up with an estranged relative or come out of your shell or benefit in some other way .. My feeling is that if I can sit in a room for 15 hours for 3 straight days, I might as well visit Australia for the weekend..

And what do you know, now, over a year later, he claims to have done just that...familiarized himself...escaped unscathed, and benefited in some way.

What a coincidence. Or was it ESP?

Glam

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: elena ()
Date: December 08, 2006 09:16AM

Quote
glam

Honestly, it sounds like he cobbled together other people's accounts to sound "fair" at the beginning, though of course overall his review of Landmark is positive.


I think you're right.

There must be some new "campaign" to seed the community with these "credible" accounts.

They know they don't look believable if they are too enthusiastic and un-critical. But if they ~acknowledge~ (from the Co$ "Communcation" course) a lot of the complaints they must be hearing, well, that's all they have to do -- acknowlege them. Then they can proceed with the soaping and lathering. It's right out of some of the customer manuals I've seen, which direct people to "listen & mirror" the customer's "concern."



Ellen

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: sametanner ()
Date: December 08, 2006 09:36AM

I took Landmark's Forum course back in 1995 while I was a member of another cult, the Miracle of Love. Compared to the MOL's then 9 day intensive, I found the Forum to be pretty lightweight - but that's comparing apples with oranges. In both cults, I found some useful ideas and concepts to help me work out problems in my life, but there's no way I could recommend either to anyone.

What Trooper said about Landmark practicing psychology without a license is very accurate - all these groups and cults do. And regardless of what they say the benefits are or their stated motives, it boils down to making lots of money for themselves.....literally the bottom line.

Would you let an unlicensed physician perform surgery on your body?? Then why would you let someone play around with your psyche and pay them for it??

Something I read being addressed somewhat indirectly, is that the attraction to such groups for some is (in my opinion) the "permission" these groups give or lend to their members to run away from their responsibilities. Sort of like bingeing on alcohol or drugs and trying to stay high, because when you sober up, your problems are still there where you left them. I think this may be part of the motivation for some to stay in a cult.

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Date: December 08, 2006 10:29AM

My Landmark spruiker also signed up for Big Brother Big Sister program. Is there a link?

(It worried me a lot. She said things like, "I had a training course today on how to spot the kids who are being abused.")

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: Jack Oskar Larm ()
Date: December 08, 2006 03:13PM

Quote
upsidedownnewspaper
My Landmark spruiker also signed up for Big Brother Big Sister program. Is there a link?

(It worried me a lot. She said things like, "I had a training course today on how to spot the kids who are being abused.")

Yeah, and it really bothers me that cults like this encourage children to be part of their programming. I know they're overt about it and the blame falls squarely on the parents, brainwashed or not. I mean, it's bad enough parents coercing their children to be high achievers (doctors, lawyers, academics) against their own will...but this?!

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: ClausDIa ()
Date: December 08, 2006 07:00PM

Several independent psychological experts should officially investigate into Landmark maybe in different countries ... To be sure that they are not sued if they say anything negative about Landmark :-), the survey could be supervised by a governmental institution ...

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: ClausDIa ()
Date: December 08, 2006 08:54PM

no alterations in behaviour/very successful at producing positive opinions about the training:


Quote

... The new packet emphasizes scholarly articles because we believe that this area cries out for scientific research. Given the person-hours devoted to LGATs during the past two decades, it is astounding how little solid scientific research has been conducted. Indeed, there is not enough research to make any sweeping generalizations about this genre of training program. The research on est suggests that a small, though certainly not insignificant, percentage of participants were psychologically harmed by the training in ways that are detectable by standard measures of psychological distress. How much "subtle" harm occurs is still open to dispute.

[b:10529c3250]I know of no research, however, that convincingly demonstrates positive behavioral effects of these trainings. [/b:10529c3250] In my opinion, one of the best studies from a methodological standpoint was "Research on Erhard Seminar Training in a Correctional Institution" (Hosford, Ray, E., Moss, C. Scott, Cavior, Helene, & Kerish, Burton. Catalog of Selected Documents in Psychology, 1982, Manuscript #2419, American Psychological Association). Of 313 inmates who volunteered for est training in a Federal Correctional Institution, 150 were randomly selected for the training, while the balance acted as a waiting-list control group and were given scholarships to be used upon release. The groups did not differ on demographics or variables related to criminal history. They were given a full battery of psychological tests and biofeedback instruments, with half of the group pre-tested and half post-tested (to control for the possible contaminating effect of testing). Three-month and 12-month follow-ups were conducted to assess behavioral outcomes (incident reports, furloughs, work performance, etc.). Although the psychological tests reflected some positive change, these self-report changes did not manifest themselves in alterations in physiological measures or in actual behavior.

[b:10529c3250]The research and anecdotal evidence seem to indicate that LGATs are very successful at producing positive opinions about the trainings [/b:10529c3250]-- an outcome that the financial officers of every service business would value. However, whether or not they have a substantial positive effect on behavior that is not due to placebo factors, is still an unanswered question.

There are also a host of ethical questions that can be raised about how many of these trainings recruit new trainees and persuade graduates to continue to take more courses. We hope that the material in the new packet will help readers appreciate the complexity and subtlety of the issues raised by LGATs.
[/quote]

Options: ReplyQuote
Forum - Night 3 + Tues. night...
Posted by: Maggie ()
Date: December 09, 2006 05:41AM

rrmoderator wrote:

Quote

IMO--the only element Landmark lacks that precludes it from being called a "cult," is an ever-present totalitarian and charismatic leader. The other two elements of "thought reform" and exploitation or harm done are readily visible.

I think the Forum Leader is the "totalitarian and charismatic leader" who creates a micro-cosm little cult society with the current Seminars' attendees.

One Landmarkian I spoke with talked of his leader as a saint-like figure who "Even met with the Dalai Lama." When I quesitoned that and said "How do you know he actually did?" he said "What reason would I have NOT to believe him?"

Yeah.

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 3 of 6


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.