Anyway, just popped open another cold one to get my reflections down on day 2.

Most of the first half of the day was devoted to "sharing." Once again, I don't feel comfortable relating personal issues to people I don't know (a racket, of course), so I never stepped up to the mike... though I did offer up a few morsels to my "partners." I also enjoyed listening to what my they had to say and believe I offered some sage, helpful advice .. Sometimes I think I should have a been a shrink!

Many of the problems people shared before the class were quite mundane. Half the time I felt like yelling out "wahh..wahh.. wahh.. stop wth the drama, already" (appologies to Arite Lange). One guy even complained about being too successful, too athletic and too privileged... Of course, there were others with much deeper issues .. such as dealing with terminal cancer and childhood sex abuse again... It was quite heavy at times.

We broke early for the second break because one girl who yesterday movingly told her tale of childhood sexual abuse fell ill and had to go to the hospital.

The highlight of the day, of course, was the fear exercise ... I had read about this and wasn't going to let myself be hypnotized. Regardless, this was one of the most disturbing but fascinating experiences of my life. It was like an exorcism. I began by just staring at the floor. But as people started crying and wailing, I couldn't help but let my eyes wander around the room to see what was going on. People were overcome.. I believe at least one person vomited. Two or three particpants were screaming out loud. "I want my mommy!" "How could you do this to me?"

Towards the end of the exercise, I had to leave the room to get some fresh air. Of course, I was followed by two or three of the facilitators, who wanted to make sure I wasn't leaving for the day...

Afterwards, I spoke to the guy next to me. He was one of the few who kept his eyes open most the time, and he had left the room for a bit. I asked him if his reaction was similar to mine.. fascination, disbelief, disturbance... His response was that he left the room because he was so into it that his stomach had become upset. Yikes!

After the break, I spoke to another guy to get his reaction. He couldn't really comment because he was so into it that he didn't see anything I had observed.

The rest of the session was a bit anti-climactic. One of the assistants noted that I did not seem to be into the fear exercise and asked me if I getting anything out of the Forum. She wanted to make sure that I was doing the assignments and remained "coachable." I told her that I was learning a lot but that perhaps I am just too cynical. (A "racket," of course.)

The last hour, exclusive of the recruiting, was devoted to "strong suits." I got a kick out of uncovering one my own .. now I just have to dig out the other two by 9 AM tomorrow.

In conclusion, I am sure hypnosis or regression therapy can be helpful. There were people who were unloading quite a lot of baggage.. I just don't think it is appropriate to subject 140 people to this without warning, when each person's case is different. People could have a negative, or even dangerous, reaction to this ...

As for myself, there are areas of my life I wish to improve. I want to live an extraordinary life. There are issues in my family that have been swept under the rug for far too long. I can see the manipulation and big time rackets that family members run... The forum will motivate me to address these matters with my mom, dad, stepmom and sister in the hope of creating something better .. but I'm not gonna do it on a cel phone at one in the morning!

As for the rest of the class, pretty much everyone is embracing the Landmark teaching ... I haven't seen any real skepticism ... We'll all be on a real high when this is over... Again, I feel bad for those who might not be able to deal when it goes away .. There was one girl in there who was on her third forum ..

Anyway, I gotta do my homework and go to sleep!

Later y'all!

Quote

The highlight of the day, of course, was the fear exercise ... I had read about this and wasn't going to let myself be hypnotized. Regardless, this was one of the most disturbing but fascinating experiences of my life. It was like an exorcism. I began by just staring at the floor. But as people started crying and wailing, I couldn't help but let my eyes wander around the room to see what was going on. People were overcome.. I believe at least one person vomited. Two or three particpants were screaming out loud. "I want my mommy!" "How could you do this to me?"

Towards the end of the exercise, I had to leave the room to get some fresh air. Of course, I was followed by two or three of the facilitators, who wanted to make sure I wasn't leaving for the day...

Afterwards, I spoke to the guy next to me. He was one of the few who kept his eyes open most the time, and he had left the room for a bit. I asked him if his reaction was similar to mine.. fascination, disbelief, disturbance... His response was that he left the room because he was so into it that his stomach had become upset. Yikes!

After the break, I spoke to another guy to get his reaction. He couldn't really comment because he was so into it that he didn't see anything I had observed.

The rest of the session was a bit anti-climactic. One of the assistants noted that I did not seem to be into the fear exercise and asked me if I getting anything out of the Forum. She wanted to make sure that I was doing the assignments and remained "coachable." I told her that I was learning a lot but that perhaps I am just too cynical. (A "racket," of course.)

Weird stuff that Fear Exercise.

Didn't James Slee once die during that in the EST Training and they didn't allow firefighters and paramedics in the room to help him for like minutes afterwards?

[www.answers.com]

Whoooooo..... how healthy is this ?:

"
August 14, 1983, Incident
Jack Slee died on August 14, 1983, while standing on the stage of the Park Plaza Hotel's Grand Ballroom in New Haven, Connecticut. When the first responders arrived in the form of the New Haven fire rescue squad, the firefighters were initially prevented from entering the ballroom to treat Slee:

A New Haven fire emergency squad was the first to arrive on the scene, having been called by someone in the training. [b:b7d1a11cd7]But when the first two fire fighters got to the ballroom entrance, they were held up by one of the assistants guarding the doors. One fire fighter asked whether anyone inside needed medical attention. The assistant turned her head back toward the door, peering inside for a moment, and then turned back to the two men. "No, not yet," she told them. After another moment or two, the fire fighters brushed past the door guard and made their way to the stage where Slee still lay[/color:b7d1a11cd7][/b:b7d1a11cd7]. Minutes later two more fire fighters arrived along with an ambulance crew of paramedics that had been dispatched to the hotel...the paramedics tried to revive Slee, but then...the ominous flat tone on the portable heart monitor they had set down beside the stricken man. No heartbeat. No vital signs.

[b:b7d1a11cd7]The est trainer, David Norris, later asked all of the Erhard Seminars Training participants:

to consider the possibility that Jack Slee might have "willed his own death"[/b:b7d1a11cd7] ....


Soooo... all you bold and ballsy "[b:b7d1a11cd7]U Create UR Own Reality Racketeers[/color:b7d1a11cd7][/b:b7d1a11cd7]"... [i:b7d1a11cd7]did David Norris and all the other members of the trainer body consider the possibility that Werner Erhard "willed his own disgrace[/color:b7d1a11cd7]"... No ? You never thought that ? You never permitted yourself to think that ? [/i:b7d1a11cd7]

did someone name the fear process for u.

it used to be called the fear process its now
called the empowerment process.

this is group hypnosis.

should people be told in advance that they
are going to be hypnotized or should
hypnosis be somethings that people just do
to others because they can gain from it?

this is where landmark empowers themself over u.

Quote
The_Trooper
Anyway, I gotta do my homework and go to sleep!

Later y'all!

Thanks for writing. You've confirmed some pretty grim suspicions. There are probably more than an occasional person who flips out, as they claim. And, as you've pointed out, this is a one-size-fits-all kind of "therapy" that may not be the right thing for most. I'm concerned about the girl who had to go to the hospital. How did you find out? Did they make an anouncement?


Ellen

The posts seem to be missing quite a lot of detail.

And what are the chances the Landmark folks are reading these posts and haven't called anyone out for exposing their "copyrighted" material online?

Starting to smell fishy...

Isn't it odd that this person only covers the stuff everyone already knows about....and seems to be having an OK time at the Forum, while "taking what works for him and disregarding the rest?"

Also, a bit odd that he refers to the "fear process," though it was renamed a while back?

Hmmmmm.

Glam

There is one single activity that Landmark carries out, that they should be shut down for.

Werner Erhard designed a process for people to take deep, untreated TRAUMA in people, and then REACTIVATE it, and then just cut people lose with no support from professionals. This can lead to hospitalization and even suicide, and mental breakdowns, as we have seen.

When someone has been sexually abused as a child, their mind has developed powerful defenses, to keep all of that TRAUMA from overwhelming them. This type of trauma is similar to soldiers who have been traumatized in war, or what was called "shell shock" in WWI. It is very severe, and almost impossible to treat.
The human mind dissociates from severe trauma, as the mind cannot handle all of the pain at once.

Then Werner Erhard comes along, and trains some clueless arrogant fools called "Forum Leaders"and they irresponsibly get people to reactivate their severe trauma. That is [b:e5a597066c]extremely dangerous.[/b:e5a597066c]
No psychologist or psychiatrist would EVER do that.
First, they have to set the groundwork with people, and set up support, and perhaps use medication. And then the trauma is explored carefully over a long period of time. The mental health professional also sets up help for the person 24/7, in case the stress is too much.

"Flooding" of trauma is extremely dangerous, and can lead to hospitalization and mental breakdowns, and suicide.
No mental health pro deals with trauma like this anymore, it was a fad in the 60's, but has been shown to be extremely damaging for people, and makes them worse.
These poor people get flooded with trauma, and they CANNOT turn it off. It can take them years to put the cat back in the bag, if ever.

[www.ncptsd.va.gov]

Werner Erhard does not care about people, and neither does the Landmark Forum.

People with severe childhood trauma need to seek out proper treatment from trained professionals.
What you do NOT do, is stand up in front of a room, and reactivate your trauma like an "exorcism" and think it is going to be purged. Wrong. That is the height of compete ignorance about mental health.
The trauma is going to overwhelm you, and get 10x worse, and then you can't turn it off. Then you might end up in the hospital, or have a psychotic break, or just have a breakdown, and you could wreck the next 10 years of your life.

Just the fact that Landmark does this to people with trauma, means that Landmark should be shut down for malpractice.
Anyone who has been victimized like this by Landmark should get a large financial settlement, so they can then seek out proper trauma treatment from mental health professionals.
The Landmark Forum leaders who do this all need to be sued for malpractice, and if it went before a judge, Landmark would be put out of business.

Read how trauma is supposed to be treated, and the criminal malpractice of Landmark Education will be clear. It is criminal what Landmark is doing to people with trauma. Literally.
[www.ncptsd.va.gov]

Quote

Complex PTSD (sometimes called "Disorder of Extreme Stress") is found among individuals who have been exposed to prolonged traumatic circumstances, especially during childhood, such as childhood sexual abuse. Developmental research is revealing that many brain and hormonal changes may occur as a result of early, prolonged trauma, and these changes contribute to difficulties with memory, learning, and regulating impulses and emotions. Combined with a disruptive, abusive home environment that does not foster healthy interaction, these brain and hormonal changes may contribute to severe behavioral difficulties (such as impulsivity, aggression, sexual acting out, eating disorders, alcohol/drug abuse, and self-destructive actions), emotional regulation difficulties (such as intense rage, depression, or panic), and mental difficulties (such as extremely scattered thoughts, dissociation, and amnesia). As adults, these individuals often are diagnosed with depressive disorders, personality disorders, or dissociative disorders. Treatment often takes much longer than with regular PTSD, may progress at a much slower rate, and requires a sensitive and structured treatment program delivered by a trauma specialist.

Quote
The_Trooper
We broke early for the second break because one girl who yesterday movingly told her tale of childhood sexual abuse fell ill and had to go to the hospital.

By the way, this is exactly what happens to the poor souls who are duped into "flooding" severe childhood trauma, like sexual abuse. For some people, God only knows what they went through as children, and reactivating it out of the blue like Landmark does, can lead to a mental breakdown, and hospitalization, and suicide.

If there are any Landmark Forum leaders reading this, let me tell you something. You might feel powerful up there doing this to people, but one day reality is going to kick you in the face. Someone who has a mental breakdown, is going to commit suicide or homicide due to your personal malpractice, and you are going to pay the price for this, legally, and even criminally.
And one day 20 years from now, you are going to look back at all these poor people who were abused in their childhoods, and you are going to realize that you wrecked many lives, with your ignorance and arrogance.

People who suffered sexual abuse as children need to get proper treatment from highly trained mental health professionals, and should never get up in front a group of people and spill their guts like that. Its not going to "heal you" like a miracle. Its going to make your life 10x worse.

For those who have been sexually abused as a child...
Please, seek out treatment from licensed professionals who specialize in this.
Don't let these Landmark arrogant fools use your pain as dramatic entertainment, and then send you to the hospital when you "lose it", so the doctors can save your life. Landmark doesn't care about you, they are using you for seminar dramatics.

These Landmark assholes really turn my stomach. If anyone tried to retraumatize a person in my presence, like these Landmarkian Leaders do, they would never get away with it. The seminar would stop right there, and they would be forced to show me the scientific data that publically exposing childhood sex abuse helps people. That seminar would end right there.
I would not leave that room until they explained what they were doing, and why. What Landmark is doing to these poor people is criminal. These Landmark seminar leaders fools have blood on their hands, due to their malpractice.

If someone can get some media outlet to catch a Landmark Leader in the USA on hidden camera getting someone to expose their sexual abuse, then Landmark and that Leader can be sued into oblivion for the damage they are doing to people, and Landmark will be forced to stop doing that abusive technique.

Quote
The_Trooper
The highlight of the day, of course, was the fear exercise ... I had read about this and wasn't going to let myself be hypnotized. Regardless, this was one of the most disturbing but fascinating experiences of my life. It was like an exorcism. I began by just staring at the floor. But as people started crying and wailing, I couldn't help but let my eyes wander around the room to see what was going on. People were overcome.. I believe at least one person vomited. Two or three particpants were screaming out loud. "I want my mommy!" "How could you do this to me?"

Towards the end of the exercise, I had to leave the room to get some fresh air. Of course, I was followed by two or three of the facilitators, who wanted to make sure I wasn't leaving for the day...

Afterwards, I spoke to the guy next to me. He was one of the few who kept his eyes open most the time, and he had left the room for a bit. I asked him if his reaction was similar to mine.. fascination, disbelief, disturbance... His response was that he left the room because he was so into it that his stomach had become upset. Yikes!

After the break, I spoke to another guy to get his reaction. He couldn't really comment because he was so into it that he didn't see anything I had observed.

It's interesting that people who have gone through est and Landmark courses are often incredulous when it's stated that hypnosis is used. Whereas, if you know beforehand and watch the Fear process and other processes in seminars, it's obvious that hypnotic techniques are employed. From my experience, the induction is gradual from the openess and vulnerability coming out of The Forum. To months and then years of seminars where hypnotic processes are used. With self-hypnosis outside LE in using processes learned inside LE to work through problems. Eventually doubt and questioning move to certainty and often zealotry about Landmark, it's language and ideas.

This of course can all reverse, as it did with me, when one wakes up and starts questioning.

Reactivating trauma, research into shell - shocked troop, PTSD, etc. were all subjects researched in the late 50's and into the 60's, along with methods of though reform (commonly called "brainwashing") by the Soviets, Communist Chinese, North Koreans, etc. The results of this research, which was done for both military and theraputic reasons produced the methods currently called LGATs (Large Group Awareness Training).

Werner Erhardt was one of the first to realize the money-making potential of these methods and subsequently founded EST, now called Landmark. Other organizations, cults, radical fundamentalist Christian sects, Hate Groups, etc. quickly followed suit and use them to this day. None of them gives a damn about the damage done to the vulnerable, they are just tossed aside and swept under the rug.

For groups like Landmark, Miracle of Love (Seminar for the 21st Century), and a multitude of other groups you can find referenced on this site - it is only about recruitment and using their memberships to generate funding and contributions which ultimately end up enriching the leaders of these groups

I think the only way to effectively combat them is to get LGATs regulated for use only by Psychiatric proffessionals under strict guidelines. Do that, and groups such as Landmark either will have to change their methods or become civilly and criminally prosecutabe. They would not be able to hide behind the veil of "Freedom of Worship", nor would they find it so easy as they do now to attach critics contending their first amendment rights to free speech, etc are being attacked.