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sonnie_dee

...People change because they stop listening to the inner voice because landmark teaches us it is bad but the inner voice is our critical thinker. It makes us weigh up consequences properly.

People go into the landmark forum well and come out unwell. Even with their stupid mental health screening it means nothing because they are playing with your mind.

....Also known as a conscience.

Landmark programs are designed to silence that inner voice that might tell you something important and substitute THEIR voice, Werner Erhard's voice, the voice of a criminal con-man sociopath with NO conscience, only a slick and sinister plan to make a lot of money and take advantage of a lot of people. Yikes! It's a world of ~no victims; just "volunteers,"~ ~no sympathy,~ (because "sympathy is for life's victims") -- a world where it doesn't really matter what you do to anybody because if they ~interpret~ your actions as being harmful or hurtful, well, that's just their problem, their ~racket,~ or their ~interpretation.~ What a sick and disgusting "program," churning out mini-me versions of Werner Erhard, as if the world needed any more like him.


Ellen

and people will sometimes say that landmark
isnt a cult because there is no numero uno.

well the program leaders are trained in werners
mannerisms.

there u have it. while werner may not actually
be there at the moment by training the
leaders in his manners he indeed is there.

that little voice in your head, referred to as your
consiouse or your inner being helps u throughout
your life.

landmark strips this from u. u no longer listen
to your own self instead u give up your future
to landmark. your basic inner protections is gone.
u are at the mercy of the cult.



that is control.

There is quite a difference between the forum and the advanced course. Firstly, I have had considerable experience in the personal development field and seen many top speakers and have a considerable depth of understanding

The forum. Firstly the techniques aren't very new. But it is done over an extended period with landmark. The landmark 'take' on the technique (neuro-association) is certainly far from 'gentle' (especially if you are one of those who go to the front of the group to be questioned 'or in a way interrogated' by the presenter about your complaint) and it's extremely powerful.

Not as 'safe' an environment as they proclaim at the beginning of the course. ALtough a powerful method, it is about as far from a spiritual approach as you can get and there ARE other methods which bring the same result. For example 'the journey' by Brandon bays or just look at any of Michael Domeyko Rowlands material

Through a line of questioning that causes the person to link incredible pain with what their 'complaint' is they are then asked 'whats the payoff'? Because they now have extreme desire to end the pain associated with the complaint, they realize that they are the cause of there complaint and 'remember' the reason why they are causing it, which is usually buried in their subconscious. This is NOT 'dishonesty' as you will read.

The problem: What landmark don't tell you is the reason why people do this. They say you aren't being honest with yourself and that you just keep reciting 'reasons or excuses'. They fail to acknowledge the fact of the existence of the sub-conscious and that this 'reason why' people cause this on themselves is BURIED in their sub conscious (alongside the traumatic event) and a lot of the times is not actually REMEMBERED. The mind does this naturally- it is a basic mechanism that the mind uses to 'cope' and is usually SUBCONSCIOUS.

And you know what they tell you if your reaction to the repressed memory is too severe? GOODBYE- YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP. SORRY.

What landmark doesn't acknowledge is that people are trying to 'protect' themselves and is quite a natural response to a traumatic incident. They have a behaviour that 'gets them by' but their complaint is related to their behaviour because their protective behaviour actually supresses other behaviours and causes pain and secondary problems in their life. To those that have a severe reaction because the pain associated with this traumatic event is so secere, landmark are not prepared to deal with it. Well if this is the case then they SHOULD NOT DELVE INTO THIS FIELD as they can sometimes do more damage than good- if a person is brought yo this point and then ejected without the problem sorted they RECOIL immensely and experience even more suppression and possible DEPRESSION. This is a field that requires TRAINED PSYCHOLOGISTS and the process should be catered to the individual and in RESPONSE to the reactions of the individual, NOT to a group.

Also, the reason why some people come out having a 'marked decrease' in their confidence in knowing what is 'real' or 'reality and in their own JUDGEMENT is because this method causes people to INTENSELY QUESTION their beliefs- hence JAMES ROWES state.

People ARE there beliefs- their entire experiential STRUCTURE is made up of their BELIEF SYSTEMS. The belief systems allow people to cope and function in everyday life. Landmarks extended process causes marked INSTABILTY to peoples 'belief systems' which is good in a way to dislodge core NEGATIVE beliefs but not good in the way that it SHAKES UP the ENTIRE belief system- This is why people experience a sense of mental instability after the forum. It is FAR TOO MUCH for their conscious minds to process in such a short period and sometimes, too many issues come up to be able to handle. In my opinion these people need psychological guidance after an experience like this, not untrained individuals- this is irresponsible

The 'advanced' course

DON'T attend this course. THe only difference is individuals are PUSHED more and the group can be regularly YELLED at by the presenter. Ive DONE it. It was like being in a room full of sheep where the speaker TOTALLY dominates and again people lose all confidence in their own judgement. They are disempowered and give their power to the speaker which makes them 'robots'- they do WHATEVER the speaker tells them- a part of a process used by a typical 'CULT'- hence the accusations of landmark being 'cult' like

The main problem: Landmark tells people they are in a 'safe' environment to 'come out' Well I'll tell you this (from a very caring spiritual standpoint): When you come out and be openly truthful with VERY personal matters you expose yourself greatly and are extremely VULNERABLE. Some people put aside the more protective adult-like sub personalities which leave their inner child exposed BUT able to express him or herself as a positive. This is CERTAINLY NOT A STATE TO BE IN AND GET YELLED AT. Which is what occurs in the advanced forum.

Now don't get me wrong. Landmarks process is extremely powerful and can be extremely beneficial, however the process needs to be SCRUTINISED and modified by trained psychologists and trained psychologists should be close at hand throughout the FORUM. The ADVANCED course should be OUTLAWED.

Andrew

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Now don't get me wrong. Landmarks process is extremely powerful and can be extremely beneficial, however the process needs to be SCRUTINISED and modified by trained psychologists and trained psychologists should be close at hand throughout the FORUM. The ADVANCED course should be OUTLAWED.

you'll never see that happen. Firstly, landmark is not representative of legitimate practices in business or psychotherapy. Secondly, they only use professional psychologists to promote and to disguise the amateur and reckless practice of 'psychotherapy' in their 'courses'. You'll never see landmark subject itself to a scrutiny where they haven't already 'created' a positive report for itself.
Never mind the advanced course, ALL of landmark, and every copycat organization should be outlawed.

A confirmation that yes I agree- ALL of landmark should be outlawed because any positives people may experience is associated with DAMAGING techniques like 'not listening to the little voice'. My apologies.

Quote
as
The problem: What landmark don't tell you is the reason why people do this. They say you aren't being honest with yourself and that you just keep reciting 'reasons or excuses'. They fail to acknowledge the fact of the existence of the sub-conscious and that this 'reason why' people cause this on themselves is BURIED in their sub conscious (alongside the traumatic event) and a lot of the times is not actually REMEMBERED. The mind does this naturally- it is a basic mechanism that the mind uses to 'cope' and is usually SUBCONSCIOUS.

And you know what they tell you if your reaction to the repressed memory is too severe? GOODBYE- YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP. SORRY.

What landmark doesn't acknowledge is that people are trying to 'protect' themselves and is quite a natural response to a traumatic incident. They have a behaviour that 'gets them by' but their complaint is related to their behaviour because their protective behaviour actually supresses other behaviours and causes pain and secondary problems in their life. To those that have a severe reaction because the pain associated with this traumatic event is so secere, landmark are not prepared to deal with it. Well if this is the case then they SHOULD NOT DELVE INTO THIS FIELD as they can sometimes do more damage than good- if a person is brought yo this point and then ejected without the problem sorted they RECOIL immensely and experience even more suppression and possible DEPRESSION. This is a field that requires TRAINED PSYCHOLOGISTS and the process should be catered to the individual and in RESPONSE to the reactions of the individual, NOT to a group.

Also, the reason why some people come out having a 'marked decrease' in their confidence in knowing what is 'real' or 'reality and in their own JUDGEMENT is because this method causes people to INTENSELY QUESTION their beliefs- hence JAMES ROWES state.

People ARE there beliefs- their entire experiential STRUCTURE is made up of their BELIEF SYSTEMS. The belief systems allow people to cope and function in everyday life. Landmarks extended process causes marked INSTABILTY to peoples 'belief systems' which is good in a way to dislodge core NEGATIVE beliefs but not good in the way that it SHAKES UP the ENTIRE belief system- This is why people experience a sense of mental instability after the forum. It is FAR TOO MUCH for their conscious minds to process in such a short period and sometimes, too many issues come up to be able to handle. In my opinion these people need psychological guidance after an experience like this, not untrained individuals- this is irresponsible.
Andrew

Um, if there were trained psychologist there it would be therapy. Landmark IS NOT THERAPY. IT WILL NEVER BE THERAPY.

And this buried subconscious trauma quackery is reheated Scientology.

You had to pay money to find out something you could have learned from a public library?

Quote
as
A confirmation that yes I agree- ALL of landmark should be outlawed because any positives people may experience is associated with DAMAGING techniques like 'not listening to the little voice'. My apologies.

You give me more than testimonials and LE-funded proprietary research, I'll believe the positives.

Otherwise, you're paying a lot of money to be an idiot.

Quote
as
A confirmation that yes I agree- ALL of landmark should be outlawed because any positives people may experience is associated with DAMAGING techniques like 'not listening to the little voice'. My apologies.

After watching first hand 'the positives' experienced by a person duped into landmarkia's big black void, I believe that the 'positives' are nothing more than [u:290f96b5c2][b:290f96b5c2]delusions[/b:290f96b5c2][/u:290f96b5c2] generated from the ruthless and covert thought reform shit kicking, inflicted over a period of three nights with no sleep, no real human contact, unbridled psychological molestation, and criticisms to fill in any gaps.
That's just a landmark forum, I can't even begin to fathom how sick other courses get. Of course, by that point, the raped and violated believe they are being helped and loved, and if they should disagree, well, its their fault anyway....

Quote
as
There is quite a difference between the forum and the advanced course. Firstly, I have had considerable experience in the personal development field and seen many top speakers and have a considerable depth of understanding

The forum. Firstly the techniques aren't very new. But it is done over an extended period with landmark. The landmark 'take' on the technique (neuro-association) is certainly far from 'gentle' (especially if you are one of those who go to the front of the group to be questioned 'or in a way interrogated' by the presenter about your complaint) and it's extremely powerful.

Not as 'safe' an environment as they proclaim at the beginning of the course. ALtough a powerful method, it is about as far from a spiritual approach as you can get and there ARE other methods which bring the same result. For example 'the journey' by Brandon bays or just look at any of Michael Domeyko Rowlands material

Through a line of questioning that causes the person to link incredible pain with what their 'complaint' is they are then asked 'whats the payoff'? Because they now have extreme desire to end the pain associated with the complaint, they realize that they are the cause of there complaint and 'remember' the reason why they are causing it, which is usually buried in their subconscious. This is NOT 'dishonesty' as you will read.

The problem: What landmark don't tell you is the reason why people do this. They say you aren't being honest with yourself and that you just keep reciting 'reasons or excuses'. They fail to acknowledge the fact of the existence of the sub-conscious and that this 'reason why' people cause this on themselves is BURIED in their sub conscious (alongside the traumatic event) and a lot of the times is not actually REMEMBERED. The mind does this naturally- it is a basic mechanism that the mind uses to 'cope' and is usually SUBCONSCIOUS.

thank you, Andrew, for your insightful comments