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Maggie
People sign it because 1.) they generally don't read fine print and 2.) someone they care about is pressuring them to do so.

I'm sorry, but neither of your explanations are acceptable. I don't mean to be a jerk here, but it's time people stop crying 'I am a victim', when so many would not be in these situations if they would simply take responsibility for themselves. All that's involved with taking account for ones self in a situation like this is to either 1) read the fine print, and 2) think for yourself after reading such gobbly gook and not be so easily influenced by others.

I say everything above for the majority of the 'victims' of groups like Landmark, realizing that there are those specific cases where someone is lost or broken and willing to listen/accept anyone or anything for help, and wasn't able to take responsibility for themselves when they became involved with a group like Lankmark.

For the concerned relative of the original post in this thread, I hope you know that many, including me, support you and are thinking of you and your brother... there are many of us who are growing tired of the damage caused by Landmark.

madshus: I don't think you understood my post. I never took Landmark and was not apologizing for them or for the signees. I was just explaining that everyone who signs it is not stupid -- they are pressured by people they love and respect.

What is being said here is a "blame the victim" type of mentality subscribed to by damaging groups like Landmark.
This bogus Landmark "Disclaimer" is yet another scam. Werner Erhard and those who run Landmark know that people with mental illness who could be hurt by Landmark are the LAST people who are ever going to read those types of disclaimers carefully and make the decision to walk away from Landmark.
Landmark makes their disclaimer communicate that "if you have a history of mental illness, then you are damaged goods and are not strong enough to take the Landmark Forum". No one wants to believe that about themselves, so they will take the program.

Also, the VAST majority of people with mental illness are not diagnosed or treated, and are in denial about it, or completely unaware they might have a problem. Any psychologist knows that, and so does Landmark.

Also you have to put the disclaimer in the context of the extreme recruitment for Landmark. They build people up to WANT Landmark so bad, and then drop this massive disclaimer on them as part of the persuasion process.

So again, some people refuse to see, or are not able to see that Landmark is based on DECEPTION, right from top to bottom, and that includes the disclaimer. The disclaimer is designed to do at least 2 things.
1) attempt protect Landmark from lawsuits due to all of the severe psychological damage Landmark causes in people.
2) make Landmark more attractive to people by making it seem "powerful" and even "forbidden". That is a sales technique along the lines of "are you good enough and tough enough to handle it?"

Can you imagine walking in to a psychiatrist or psychologist or therapist, and having to sign a 4 page massive disclaimer about all of the damage they might cause you?

Landmark is a scam.
The disclaimer is a scam.
Its designed to be part of the Landmark scam, to make people want Landmark even more. And those who are having trouble, or who have manic-depression, or mental illness, are 9 times out of 10 NOT going to admit it to themselves, and are going to go ahead and do the Landmark Forum. Werner Erhard and Landmark know this, and they exploit it.
People who have strong boundaries, and who feel good about their lives are generally not going to get sucked into it, and are the ones who might actually read the disclaimer and walk away.

But Landmark goes looking for people with manic problems...as these are the people who are going to go overboard, and spend every cent they have on Landmark, and work 18 hrs a day for Landmark...until they crash and Landmark uses them up, and dumps them aside.
So this disclaimer is a scam in the context of the tricks of "brainwashing" and coercion that Landmark uses, and blaming their victims is one of Landmarks #1 techniques.

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Madshus
I don't mean to be a jerk here, but it's time people stop crying 'I am a victim', when so many would not be in these situations if they would simply take responsibility for themselves. All that's involved with taking account for ones self in a situation like this is to either 1) read the fine print, and 2) think for yourself after reading such gobbly gook and not be so easily influenced by others.

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Maggie
madshus: I don't think you understood my post. I never took Landmark and was not apologizing for them or for the signees. I was just explaining that everyone who signs it is not stupid -- they are pressured by people they love and respect.

Hi Maggie,

I totally understand that you personally were not apologizing for Landmark or the individuals who have taken the 'class' and later call 'foul'... and I understand that you were simply explaining why they sign the form. :wink:

My response is directed towards those who do call 'foul' after signing the form... they are the ones who need to grow-up and either read the form, and upon doing so use their brain and see how ridiculous the form is, or be an adult and not give into peer pressure like they are still in junior high school.

To get back to the origan of this thread...

I am truly sorry for that your brother is missing. If that is not bad enough, you have to deal with Landmark BS.

For the discussion regarding taking accountability surrounding the signing of these documents:
I was advised to attend a MKP weekend by a Psychotherapist, so I mistakeningly took much of the documents with a grain of salt. Which is also what my counselor suggested. So not only are people attending because; A. They don't fully read the document. B. Are pressured by loved ones, but also C. Because it is "prescribed" to them from a counselor of professional stature. Is it right to question everything a counselor suggests to you? If you do, then you no trust in the counselign relationship and little progress will be made.

Cheers,
M

I think the disclaimer has but one purpose: protect Landmark.

Various tricks are used to con people to sign. For one, it is grossly downplayed and overshadowed by the glowing promises of the well-crafted sales pitches. Also, no one around you at the time you are being aggressively pressured to sign, which includes your happy, fulfilled, TRANSFORMED FRIEND/FAMILY, looks the least bit damaged (all part of the scam anti-cult mentions).

The disclaimer hardly seems to apply to this course that promises to fix all your problems and transform you. Everyone is so damn nice and good looking (scam scam scam). I don't remember thinking much of the disclaimer (different LGAT) that I signed; my recruiting friend's "new lease on life" was a selling point for me. As I say, SHE didn't seem damaged.

skeptic

Skeptic, you're right about it being downplayed. They have an answer for everything and basically they imply that they don't want anyone really, really mentally ill substituting them for therapy. My doctor recommended the forum and brushed off the disclaimer as not applying to me. He did not reveal that he was up to his eyeballs in LE and recruiting for them. People attending the introductory nights don't get a copy of the contract; it is mailed to them, after they have given a nonrefundable deposit.

I've been reading the replies, thank you for your support.

I have heard the comment from Landmark followers that my brother somehow wasn't "strong enough" to handle the Forum. And that they warn people not to take it who have mental illness. My brother was never diagnosed with mental illness, nor did he show signs of underlying mental problems. The form he signed is a crock, it doesn't excuse the fact that Landmark damaged my brother's mind so much that he suffered a breakdown, and it now missing.

After my brother disappeared, I spoke to a higher up in Landmark- within their Legal Department- an Executive Assistant Charmain of Board of Directors (his self-described title, someone else told me he was within the Legal Dept.). He told me that the form my brother filled out was designed to weed out people that might not be able to mentally handle the Forum. And- that there are Landmark people in the room monitoring the participants' behavior to notice "red flags". Again, crock.

The statement he signed would not hold up in court- it is not reasonable for someone to go into a "personal growth" seminar mentally healthy, and end up confused and disoriented- so much so that they go missing. They had a duty to protect my brother and did not in the least.

Something else I wanted to share- I received a message from someone that took the Forum, after she read the information on my brother she had the gall to ask me to attend one. I wrote her back and told her how insensitive it was, she then wrote that it was the best thing that happened to her, she was surprised no one had invited me before, and that it gave her back her relationship with her brother.

How messed up is that? My brother was taken away from his family and friends who loved him, I have -no- relationship with him thanks to Landmark.

Thanks for listening, my heart goes out to all of you who have suffered at their hands as well.

Laura (James' sister)

This is the worst thing about Landmark and the other groups and / or cults like them that use LGAT methods. It's all about generating income, screw the participants. Yes, they all have disclaimers...and they are all equally worthless. Most of these groups do not use objective, trained, and certified medical or psychiatric professionals to screen and monitor their applicants.

I'm sure it has been pointed out many times before, but LGAT methods were taken from experimental research done by the legitimate psychiatric community, most notably by Werner Erhardt (founder of EST/Landmark) and others once they realized how they could use those methods to make a fortune for themselves.

Whether they say they are trying to help people "come to God", maximize their effectiveness and / or happiness - whatever the sales pitch - the bottom line is about $$$$$$, plain and simple. CAVEAT EMPTOR!!

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Something else I wanted to share- I received a message from someone that took the Forum, after she read the information on my brother she had the gall to ask me to attend one. I wrote her back and told her how insensitive it was, she then wrote that it was the best thing that happened to her, she was surprised no one had invited me before, and that it gave her back her relationship with her brother.

How messed up is that? My brother was taken away from his family and friends who loved him, I have -no- relationship with him thanks to Landmark.

Thanks for listening, my heart goes out to all of you who have suffered at their hands as well

I am so so sorry you had someone do that to you. It really shows just how f**ked up recruits really are. You think landmark can fix everything even if they caused the problem to begin with!

Everyone keeps saying how landmark is pro relationship yet time and time again I have seen relationships flounder under the light of landmark and then crack and break completely.

People change because they stop listening to the inner voice because landmark teaches us it is bad but the inner voice is our critical thinker. It makes us weigh up consequences properly.

People go into the landmark forum well and come out unwell. Even with their stupid mental health screening it means nothing because they are playing with your mind.

I truely hope your brother finds his way home soon, I can't imagine what it is like to have a sibling missing