The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: eec5 ()
Date: October 07, 2003 06:51AM

I was recently invited by a friend I value very much to an "Educational Seminar" run by an organization called the Legacy Center, in Morrisville, NC (near Raleigh-Durham). After six months of lapsed contact, she arrived at my door one morning, asked me how things were going, and within 4 minutes she was intently analyzing my answers in a way I'd never seen her act before, e.g. "Now.....WHY do you think your room is a mess...? Does it have something to do with Control..?" During the three hours we spent together, we discussed nothing but her "mind-altering, transformative, amazing" experience at The Legacy Center. It was surreal and disconcerting.

Both of us are teachers and barely scraping by with the money we make. However, within the hour, she had signed me up online for the 5- day intensive seminar series costing $395. She didn't have that money either when she signed up, she said, and couldn't imagine where she could find it on a month's notice, but that The Legacy Center teaches you not to make excuses, that there is Always A Way. Needless to say, I felt pressured, manipulated, and wondered where my old friend was. I felt like I would fail in her eyes or become somehow a lesser person if I didn't do the training.

In the days to come, I started feeling incredulous and somewhat frightened about what I had signed up for and why. The practical pressure of "pleasing" my friend still won out, however. I rationalized that I Did want to make changes in my life and was at a point of transition-- deciding whether or not to give up a steady job and persue graduate school, and just exiting a relationship-- and that the training could simply be a tool or catalyst for moving through this transition and setting goals. Besides, they offered a money back guarantee. And, I thought, I could keep my friend!

One more aspect of this mess is that, probably responsibly, the Legacy Center asks that any therapist or mental health professional sign a waiver. I'm bipolar, on medication, and have been seeing a therapist for about two years, one whom I really trust. When she couldn't see me until Thursday for an appointment to discuss the "waiver" and the training, I called the Legacy Center. They insisted my family doctor or the pharmacologist could simply sign the documents. I explained my therapist is the one who knows my case history, and that I've seen the other two doctors under 5 times each. No problem, she said, just bring it to one of them.

I hope that I haven't given Too much information or gone into too much detail, but am at a loss here over what to do. The Legacy Center does have a website. My training starts Wednesday. Has anyone heard of it, or can anyone offer advice based on the situation as I've described it? I'm very torn over the best course of action. Cancel, on principle and lose the money? Go and get my money back afterward (you're required to complete the training to get your money back)? How to reel in my friend? Whether I am sensationalizing/demonizing what may be a helpful, harmless educational program for professional people?

Many thanks on information that could help me make an informed decision!

The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: LoriS ()
Date: October 08, 2003 02:25AM

I don't think you are really at a loss as to what to do. Look at the warning signs.

First of all, the Legacy Center was formerly Lifespring of North Carolina. Read the information on this site and on the awareness page regarding Lifespring.

Your experience of your friend is " surreal and disconcerting".

"I felt like I would fail in her eyes or become somehow a lesser person if I didn't do the training."

"They insisted my family doctor or the pharmacologist could simply sign the documents. I explained my therapist is the one who knows my case history, and that I've seen the other two doctors under 5 times each. No problem, she said, just bring it to one of them."

Do you really believe that this is a responsible action, or do they just want your money and want to protect themselves from being sued?

This is an LGAT, very similar to the one my s/o attended last June, both were based on the Lifespring model.

Anyone who had any mental health issues such as you have should stay FAR FAR away from these things. One of the first things they do to you is have you stand in inside a semi circle of other attendees, and these people give you "feedback". These people who've known you for maybe 24 hours scream at you that you are worthless, a black hole, a liar, anything they can to get a reaction from you. There is trance induction involved in these things, so what you are hearing is taken for truth. There is staff on hand to make sure they are as mean and spiteful as possible. Then they send you back to your hotel for the night, were often people attempt suicide.

Is that your idea of educational transformation?

Run like hell, forget the money, forget your friend if she insists on looking down on you for taking care of yourself. You don't need a roomful of strangers telling you how awful you are to make yourself better.

The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 08, 2003 04:37AM

From my quick glance at the URLs listed below 'Legacy Center' definitely sounds like you should do further research--

You mention you have bipolar disorder. I have read that stress and insufficient sleep are extremely hazardous for persons with bipolar; disruption of sleep is a well known trigger for manic episodes. If you participate in a heavy group indoctrination program, you may be deprived of sleep, kept past your bedtime, subjected to heavy stimulation and trance, all of which could very easily destabilize you.

And if that happens, Legacy Center may or may not have the skill to help you clean up the mess. You and your family and your therapist could be stuck with the consequences.

Even if it means losing the money, it may be better NOT to participate in this training--your health is more important.

Go to Google, click the 'groups' tab. Then type 'legacy center' into the slot. I saw a bunch of citations come up on a Google listserve




The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: elena ()
Date: October 08, 2003 11:57AM

Demand your money back as soon as possible. They will not relent easily. It will probably take some persistance on your part. They will use the fact that you are polite, well-meaning, accomodating, and decent against you. Do not let them bully you. The Legacy Center is the new name for what used to be Lifespring. They are known for ruthless and aggressive behavior towards anyone they can intimidate. It's a scam. The website is just fabricated nonsense.

Both "est" and Lifespring changed their names in attempts to distance themselves from the "legacy" of fraud, deception, frightening psychological damage, and disgusting emotionally manipulative practices they both had become known for in the 1970s. They were both riddled through with casualties, ruined marriages, suicides, and more mundane damage to people's lives and relationships. They have similar backgrounds and were started around the same time by two sharpies who lifted what was something called "Mind Dynamics" and made their own seminars which are really cult-like organisations called LGATS in the business.

There is a wealth of information available from ex-members and defectors who, thanks to the internet and anonymity, can tell what really happens in these secretive and malignant groups. They have metamorphosed recently, despite this, and it is sad commentary that they have gone on to bilk a whole new generation of victims.

Best to you,


The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: LoriTodd ()
Date: June 11, 2007 05:01AM

[u:b3c59af906][b:b3c59af906]THE LEGACY CENTER[/b:b3c59af906], My Experience [/u:b3c59af906]
Several years ago a woman by the name of [b:b3c59af906]Linda Marie Hubert[/b:b3c59af906] badgered and pressured me into attending The Legacy Center in Raleigh, North Carolina.

The following paragraphs summarize my feelings and experiences as a result of attending the Beginners, Advanced and Leadership cources there.

The Legacy Center is a [b:b3c59af906]very disturbing cult[/b:b3c59af906] and the people there such as [b:b3c59af906]Lori Todd[/b:b3c59af906], [b:b3c59af906]Rob Katz[/b:b3c59af906], and [b:b3c59af906]Nan Clarke[/b:b3c59af906] are very dangerous.

It is based on atheistic, secular, and New Age principles that are extremely dangerous and an abomination to God and Christianity. It is a cult that is engaged in mind control techniques and sleep deprivation. It espouses situational morality, New Age philosophies, and EST self development techniques that are unproven and extremely dangerous.

The people that run it have no regard for the mental health and emotional state of the people that they coerce into attending. It is all about the [b:b3c59af906]MONEY[/b:b3c59af906]. Period. Many of the people that are involved practice witchcraft. They are Wiccas.

Linda Marie Hubert's own brother told her that this was a cult and an evil place. Her own mother saw a woman in her group that had had a mental breakdown.

There are dozens and dozens of people on the Internet who have agonized and complained of the horrors of this place. I would venture to say that hundreds of lives have been adversely affected or destroyed by The Legacy Center. I would be willing to bet that there have been people that have either attempted or committed [b:b3c59af906]suicide[/b:b3c59af906] as a result of their dangerous techniques.

The Legacy Center nearly destroyed every single aspect of my life- financial, emotional, spiritual, mental, and physical.

The [b:b3c59af906]horror[/b:b3c59af906] that resulted is indescribable. All on account of [b:b3c59af906]Linda Marie Hubert[/b:b3c59af906] being obsessed with her enrollments for The Center. This woman even went so far as to use to recruit her dates for the Legacy Center.

My horrific breakdown was triggered by the Advanced course there.

I was tired and sick after attending the Beginners training. I went home and did NOT want to attend the Advanced training.
Linda was relentless in badgering me to attend. She even went so far as to volunteer to pick me up or even pay for it until I finally went.

During The Advanced class, I snapped and the demonic possession took hold that went on for many months.

During this period I became manic and delusional. I heard voices in my head and seldom slept. I became engaged to a woman so horrible that she told me that I was fine mentally as she ripped me off for nearly $40,000.

Other people took advantage of me. Lori Todd ripped me off when she did not refund money that The Center owed me.

I constantly raced my car on the freeways at upwards of 125 miles per hour.

I was exposed to all kinds of dangerous New Age philosophies and books. I did not know who I was anymore. I would feel the presence of evil all night long, night after night after night. I went on wild spending sprees. I would burn fires in my fireplace that were so large that I would nearly burn the apartment down. I suffered from paranoia and hallucinations. And this is but a tiny fraction of the horrors that ensued for months.

Then I was evicted from my apartment. I was on the verge of becoming a street person. I went to a hospital for treatment for bipolar and paranoia then they sent we to a hell hole called the Regional Medical Center. This was for people who had no money or medical insurance. They even had a few prisoners there. The medical staff was wretched and uncaring and people were crying out around me in agony all the time.

They put me on horrible drugs and told me I would be this way for the rest of my life. I was so embarrassed and ashamed that I would not tell my parents that I had no money but one my friend's did.

My parents were overwhelmed with grief. I was mentally broken and destitute. It took me six months (and the miracle of Christ in my life) to recover to the point that I could go back to work. I lived in a pay by the week motel for a couple months and saw psychiatrists at the Medical Center.

Three psychiatrists told me that I would be like this for THE REST OF MY LIFE.
I had two Christian prayer and deliverance sessions from ministers that lasted 2.5 hours each to get rid of the demonic possession.

I had absolutely nothing to look forward to in my life.

Nothing. I had been betrayed, conned, cheated and lied to by many people during this period.

It has taken me several years to rebuild my life. It cost me and my creditors $195,000 and my eventual bankruptcy.

[b:b3c59af906]I hope someone will file a class action suit against these horrendous people. The Legacy Center is an evil and dangerous cult.

They need to be put out of business[/b:b3c59af906]!

The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: question lady ()
Date: June 11, 2007 05:38AM

The fact that they require a waiver from your therapist or mental health professional may help you get out of the contract and get your money back. It is one of [i:81acc04c1d]their[/i:81acc04c1d] conditions of attendance, and you are not able to obtain it. Therefore the contract is void on the grounds of impossibility.

If you paid with a credit card you may be able to challenge the charge and assert this defense to the charge.

The Legacy Center teaches you not to make excuses, that there is Always A Way.

And, I thought, I could keep my friend!

I heard that "excuse" crap from my husband after he got sucked into "The Release Technique". I told him that an "excuse" presupposes that I have decided that it is in my best interest to do a certain thing. Since I decided that is is [i:81acc04c1d]not[/i:81acc04c1d] in my best interest to do the program, there cannot be any "excuse."

If your friendship is contigent on you attending this program, she's not a true friend.

The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: Kaz ()
Date: June 20, 2007 01:04AM

Does anyone realize how crazy and cunning these people are at Legacy!

Lori Todd herself posted above to sound like a crazy person to discredit the legacy in turn to make it sound like all people are dysfunctional who don't believe in there ways.. I guess having a PhD and being a professor at UNC doesn't school you to the fact that when you post your name appears on it.... dumb ass factor number 1!

My wife has recently joined the legacy and I am worried sick!
she doesn't believe that it is a cult, not a religious one but a money cult.
Even after I sent her all the e-mails and proof from others experiences on how bad the legacy breaks you down and the use of Social influence principles that make it easier to influence the weak of mind..ever wonder why the classes take place after a full days work?
its because you a re more acceptable to ideas.

My wife is wanting to take the next class at $1000 when we cant even afford the extra mortgage from our recent move and she is blowing money away.
She even went as far as having members watch my daughter over the week while I was away on business and didn't tell me..she quoted "you wern't ready to know" what the F&^ck does that mean?

The other cult members were even driving my vehicles around to go to her graduation thing there...

she wants me to go with her to her "follow up class" tonight...I am scared and feel I might have to take some steps to assure my financial and my 20 mo old daughters future.

Please tell all you can about the dangers of this program!

Here are some helpful links:


and from my home town:

The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: Randy666 ()
Date: June 23, 2007 12:38PM

Several years ago I was harrassed and continuosly pressured about attending the Legacy Center by a Ms Linda-Marie Hubert. :twisted:
We had met on and both lived in Charlotte, NC at the time.
Finally, it got so bad that I had to take out a restraining order against her.
She had been relentless in bothering me. There were times that I thought she was even stalking me.
She kept calling herself a Goddess, which I also found SCARY.
She was more like a witch in a bad dream and I found out The Legacy Center was a Nazi Cult run by a Dr Lori Todd. :twisted:

The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: LoriTodd ()
Date: August 12, 2007 11:29PM

An update on LINDA-MARIE HUBERT of The Legacy Center cult during 2002-2003 and a member of their NC49 class:
I know that The Legacy Center leadership are VERY PROUD of Ms Hubert.
- she passionately enrolled (and coerced)
approx. TWENTY-FIVE people into this cult :twisted:
during the 1- 1.5 years that she was actively
- her most effective enrollment tools were
offering to pay for the courses herself and
recruiting men off of the MATCH.COM dating
_ she received her "PhD" from them as well as
attending their Sexualty Workshop and
functioning as a Trainer for them.
- she even pressured her two ex-husbands into
attending The Legacy Center. Both DESPISE her!
- one of her ex-husbands' life was destroyed as a
result of attending this cult and he had a
mental breakdown and lost everything.
- She later threatened him if he ever said
anything bad about The Center.
- Linda-Marie Hubert also cheated him out of
$100,000 she had vowed to pay him when she
received her inheritance of $1,800,000.00 upon
her grandmother's death in August 2006.
- she sued her other ex-husband for alimony and
child support (she had not even botherd to
work for four years). Then to top it off, she
reported that same ex-husband to the Internal
Revenue Service for $250,000 in supposed back

The Legacy Center: Any info ASAP
Posted by: Randy666 ()
Date: August 14, 2007 03:18AM

Below is a direct quote from the Pittsburg lawyer, Mr. Peter Georgiades:

"The programs run by Lifespring (The Legacy Center is an offshoot and is virtually the same as Lifespring)), Inc. were indeed dangerous to many individuals.

It was, in essence, a CONFIDENCE GAME.

However, in order to make the emotional "high" at the end of the trainings intense (and thereby boost the re-enlistment rate and rate of recruiting by "graduates", the trainers employed POWERFUL PSYCHOLOGICAL TOOLS and methods commonly found in a group therapy milieu (as well as MAGIC tricks, rhetorical ploys and REUSES and HIGH-PRESSURE sales practices)." THE LEGACY CENTER is nothing more than a

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