Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 03, 2006 04:18AM
That's good that Slashdot picked it up.
A way to get it into the mainstream media, is to send the EFF press release to Reuters, and other news outfits.
Also, send it to various Tech news sites.
Landmark has made a horrendous error in judgement, due to their arrogance and ignorance, and apparently their incompetent lawyering!
Also, the internet community hate it when people try to censor things, especially when an "offshoot of the Scientology cult" tries to do it.
This is a perfect storm, in terms of abuse of the DMCA, video uploading, and censorship, and abusive attacks against regular people.
Its a pure attempt at personal abuse.
If Landmark had settled for getting the video removed from YouTube, they might have won the propaganda war.
But they are so "evil" that they tried to go after some individual person, and that is what brought the EFF in, and turned the public against them. They are trying to threaten individuals and scare them.
All this will do is cause people to do things like upload the video to foreign websites from a computer at a coffee shop. Landmark can't win, its not possible.
In technical terms, Landmark fucked up royally.
A way to get it into the mainstream media, is to send the EFF press release to Reuters, and other news outfits.
Also, send it to various Tech news sites.
Landmark has made a horrendous error in judgement, due to their arrogance and ignorance, and apparently their incompetent lawyering!
Also, the internet community hate it when people try to censor things, especially when an "offshoot of the Scientology cult" tries to do it.
This is a perfect storm, in terms of abuse of the DMCA, video uploading, and censorship, and abusive attacks against regular people.
Its a pure attempt at personal abuse.
If Landmark had settled for getting the video removed from YouTube, they might have won the propaganda war.
But they are so "evil" that they tried to go after some individual person, and that is what brought the EFF in, and turned the public against them. They are trying to threaten individuals and scare them.
All this will do is cause people to do things like upload the video to foreign websites from a computer at a coffee shop. Landmark can't win, its not possible.
In technical terms, Landmark fucked up royally.
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: November 03, 2006 11:02AM
Quote
Landmark has made a horrendous error in judgement, due to their arrogance and ignorance, and apparently their incompetent lawyering!
Also, the internet community hate it when people try to censor things, especially when an "offshoot of the Scientology cult" tries to do it.
This is a perfect storm, in terms of abuse of the DMCA, video uploading, and censorship, and abusive attacks against regular people.
Its a pure attempt at personal abuse.
Looks like it's all over the legal and free speech related blogs now:
[b:b53109ad6d]Self-help Group Bullies Net Critics [/b:b53109ad6d]
[blogsearch.google.com]
Perhaps the press release will make it into the mainstream media/press soon...
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: November 03, 2006 10:23PM
Looks like the video is now gone from the Daily Motion site.
[www.dailymotion.com]
Still pickin up speed at the torrent
[thepiratebay.org]
anyone have further info on how/why it's gone from Daily Motion?
Did [b:519e613e42]Art Schreiber[/b:519e613e42] make the same [b:519e613e42]chilling effect free speech legal threats and intimidation[/b:519e613e42] to Daily Motion that he did to get it taken off Google, YouTube, and Internet Archive?
this site will probably have updates
[www.culteducation.com]
probably also this one
[www.eff.org]
Wonder where a streaming video version will pop up next?
Also wonder when/if it may ever go back up on Google, YouTube, Internet Archive, and Dailymotion, once no one tolerates Landmark Education's oppression of free speech...
Also, to tide you over since you can't watch the streaming video version anymore, here is this funny "YTMND" that someone put up, it pretty much summarizes Landmark Education and Werner Erhard's attitude towards their "customers" pretty well. I think the audio and picture are from the movie that spoofed Erhard in the 70's, Semi-Tough:
[erhardsatire.ytmnd.com]
wonder if anyone else will come up with more funny related YTMND's...
[www.dailymotion.com]
Still pickin up speed at the torrent
[thepiratebay.org]
anyone have further info on how/why it's gone from Daily Motion?
Did [b:519e613e42]Art Schreiber[/b:519e613e42] make the same [b:519e613e42]chilling effect free speech legal threats and intimidation[/b:519e613e42] to Daily Motion that he did to get it taken off Google, YouTube, and Internet Archive?
this site will probably have updates
[www.culteducation.com]
probably also this one
[www.eff.org]
Wonder where a streaming video version will pop up next?
Also wonder when/if it may ever go back up on Google, YouTube, Internet Archive, and Dailymotion, once no one tolerates Landmark Education's oppression of free speech...
Also, to tide you over since you can't watch the streaming video version anymore, here is this funny "YTMND" that someone put up, it pretty much summarizes Landmark Education and Werner Erhard's attitude towards their "customers" pretty well. I think the audio and picture are from the movie that spoofed Erhard in the 70's, Semi-Tough:
[erhardsatire.ytmnd.com]
wonder if anyone else will come up with more funny related YTMND's...
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 04, 2006 01:52AM
Yes, it appears the video is gone from Daily Motion now too.
No explanation on the site, but it seems logical the same thing happened there.
Hopefully someone will let the EFF know about this, and perhaps there is someone else who would host the video?
Landmark is so foolish and ignorant.
What they have done is made this video seem "forbidden" and everyone wants to see what is "forbidden"!
The Daily Motion site had 1500 views, so all total, a few thousand people have seen the video.
So Landmark is increasing demand to see this video, and doing viral marketing for it!
What is probably going to happen next, [b:60f7a49dfe]is that someone who has the video, to protect their anonymity, will put the video on a CD, and take it downtown in a city to some internet cafe where you pay cash and don't register, and then just upload it to an offshore website, like in Russia or Africa, or wherever, for either downloading, or viewing.[/b:60f7a49dfe]
So Landmark can't stop the video in the age of the internet.
There are people who easily get around the Chinese Government, who like Landmark, believe in fanatical censorship, and are against free expression, and free speech.
Landmark opposes Free Speech, and free discussion, and freedom of thought and belief. They are a very sick organization.
What is Landmark so afraid of?
Why is Landmark such a group of COWARDS who cannot FACE REALITY and defend their own "work" in the form of an LGAT seminar?
What is Landmark so afraid of the facts and truth?
Why are they so afraid of their own methods?
I wonder how much Landmark "enjoys" being "exposed" in public, like they do to their victims/clients?
So Landmark is fighting a hopeless battle, and are just making the video more valuable and enticing to people.
Lastly, is not the video still available on some of the other sites for direct download? There were links in other threads where it was posted for download in various places.
Maybe the CultBusting site in Australia will host the video?
No explanation on the site, but it seems logical the same thing happened there.
Hopefully someone will let the EFF know about this, and perhaps there is someone else who would host the video?
Landmark is so foolish and ignorant.
What they have done is made this video seem "forbidden" and everyone wants to see what is "forbidden"!
The Daily Motion site had 1500 views, so all total, a few thousand people have seen the video.
So Landmark is increasing demand to see this video, and doing viral marketing for it!
What is probably going to happen next, [b:60f7a49dfe]is that someone who has the video, to protect their anonymity, will put the video on a CD, and take it downtown in a city to some internet cafe where you pay cash and don't register, and then just upload it to an offshore website, like in Russia or Africa, or wherever, for either downloading, or viewing.[/b:60f7a49dfe]
So Landmark can't stop the video in the age of the internet.
There are people who easily get around the Chinese Government, who like Landmark, believe in fanatical censorship, and are against free expression, and free speech.
Landmark opposes Free Speech, and free discussion, and freedom of thought and belief. They are a very sick organization.
What is Landmark so afraid of?
Why is Landmark such a group of COWARDS who cannot FACE REALITY and defend their own "work" in the form of an LGAT seminar?
What is Landmark so afraid of the facts and truth?
Why are they so afraid of their own methods?
I wonder how much Landmark "enjoys" being "exposed" in public, like they do to their victims/clients?
So Landmark is fighting a hopeless battle, and are just making the video more valuable and enticing to people.
Lastly, is not the video still available on some of the other sites for direct download? There were links in other threads where it was posted for download in various places.
Maybe the CultBusting site in Australia will host the video?
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 04, 2006 02:08AM
It appears the video can be viewed here. Does this work for anyone?
If so, perhaps the EFF can update their links to the video.
[www.caic.org.au]
If so, perhaps the EFF can update their links to the video.
[www.caic.org.au]
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
Brad69
()
Date: November 04, 2006 02:10AM
Isn't it ironic how Landmark goes on about creating one's own reality, or things being merely one's interpretation of them.
So, why don't they just alter their interpretation, or can they not handle the reality they have created?
Why are they so eager to change our perception of things by using threats laced with lies to remove the truth, as seen in the documentary, about the Forum?
Or is it that the reality they see is the same one we see, and they want it hidden because the truth hurts their business, as it apparently has been doing? :D
Werner Erhard used a lot of ideas from Scientology. Now, Landmark is trying another one of those to try and silence the truth. When Scientology tried to silence the story of the [i:3a83aca2c3]Evil Alien Ruler Xenu[/i:3a83aca2c3] it didn't work. And neither are Landmark's Scientology-like actions going to work now.
The more they fight it, the more they make the story grow.
Let's keep getting the story out there. There are many LGATs using similar methods to Landmark and the sooner the story gets out about how this industry is being manipulated and is damaging countless people the better. There are some good groups, but there are many bad ones.
It's a fight against Landmark, but the greater implications are bigger than that.
The LGAT/Human Potential Seminar industry needs a big clean-up, and Landmark is a good place to start.
So, why don't they just alter their interpretation, or can they not handle the reality they have created?
Why are they so eager to change our perception of things by using threats laced with lies to remove the truth, as seen in the documentary, about the Forum?
Or is it that the reality they see is the same one we see, and they want it hidden because the truth hurts their business, as it apparently has been doing? :D
Werner Erhard used a lot of ideas from Scientology. Now, Landmark is trying another one of those to try and silence the truth. When Scientology tried to silence the story of the [i:3a83aca2c3]Evil Alien Ruler Xenu[/i:3a83aca2c3] it didn't work. And neither are Landmark's Scientology-like actions going to work now.
The more they fight it, the more they make the story grow.
Let's keep getting the story out there. There are many LGATs using similar methods to Landmark and the sooner the story gets out about how this industry is being manipulated and is damaging countless people the better. There are some good groups, but there are many bad ones.
It's a fight against Landmark, but the greater implications are bigger than that.
The LGAT/Human Potential Seminar industry needs a big clean-up, and Landmark is a good place to start.
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: November 04, 2006 02:49AM
[b:bea592c767]Landmark disputes EFF charges [/b:bea592c767]
[www.p2pnet.net]
Ha ha ha, [i:bea592c767]In fact, one of our core principles is our commitment to empowering people's full self-expression.[/i:bea592c767] [b:bea592c767]They can't even issue a public press release without using their own brainwashed Landmark jargon that they stole from Scientology![/b:bea592c767]
Remember, go here for more info:
[thepiratebay.org]
[www.p2pnet.net]
Quote
p2pnet.net News:- A claim by the EFF that a Landmark Education copyright claim is bogus and stifles free speech online is, "entirely inaccurate," says Landmark in an email to p2pnet.
In a bid to suppress an investigative television documentary critical of its methods, Landmark subpoenaed the Internet Archive, Google Video, and YouTube seeking the identities of the anonymous uploaders, says the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation), going on:
"The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) allows a content owner to issue a subpoena for the identity of an alleged infringer without first filing an actual lawsuit".
EFF lawyer Corynne McSherry described the action as a classic example of, "using a bogus copyright claim to squelch free speech". Landmark, "is simply trying to use the streamlined DMCA subpoena process to obtain the identities of its critics," she stated.
However, Landmark says the video, "posted on several Internet sites," included copyrighted portions of its Landmark Forum which were, "taped without authorization by a person who was in the program under a false name".
Learning the video was online, "we availed ourselves of the rights provided under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ('DMCA') to request the identity of the people who posted this video," says the Landmark email.
"The Electronic Frontier Foundation ('EFF') challenged our actions and alleged to the press that our copyright claims were bogus, which statement was then disseminated on the Internet."
The email adds, "Landmark Education did not take the actions under the DMCA to suppress free speech. In fact, one of our core principles is our commitment to empowering people's full self-expression. Rather, we took these actions solely to protect our copyrighted material, which is the principal source of our business operations.
"While freedom of speech on the Internet is essential, it is also vital that copyrighted materials be protected."
Ha ha ha, [i:bea592c767]In fact, one of our core principles is our commitment to empowering people's full self-expression.[/i:bea592c767] [b:bea592c767]They can't even issue a public press release without using their own brainwashed Landmark jargon that they stole from Scientology![/b:bea592c767]
Remember, go here for more info:
[thepiratebay.org]
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
ajinajan
()
Date: November 04, 2006 03:21AM
Art Schreiber, General Counsel, Erhard Seminars Training, personal attorney of Werner Erhard, President, General Counsel & Initial Agent, Werner Erhard and Associates,General Counsel & Chairman of the Board of Landmark Education responded:
[b:00c53c62d1]Landmark Fires Back at EFF[/b:00c53c62d1]
[www.redherring.com]
For more info
[thepiratebay.org]
[b:00c53c62d1]Landmark Fires Back at EFF[/b:00c53c62d1]
[www.redherring.com]
Art Schreiber and his minions versus the free speech rights of anonymous individuals as upheld under The United States Constitution. Hmm...........Quote
Landmark Fires Back at EFF
Organization says its subpoena of Google and YouTube is self-protection, not free speech muzzle.
November 3, 2006
An attorney for Landmark Education, a 15-year-old personal development organization, called charges made by a digital rights group that it is using copyright law as a tool to suppress the free speech rights of Google Video and YouTube uploaders inaccurate and unfounded.
Attorney Art Schreiber, general counsel for Landmark Education, said the organization he represents was simply protecting its intellectual property, not seeking to limit anyone’s right to full and free self-expression.
“We took these actions solely to protect our copyrighted material, which is the principal source of our business operations,” Mr. Schreiber said in an email to Red Herring. “While freedom of speech on the Internet is essential, it is also vital that copyrighted materials be protected.”
Landmark has subpoenaed YouTube, Google Video, and Internet Archive seeking the identity of the individuals who uploaded a French-made documentary that the group believes includes copyrighted portions of its program, the Landmark Forum (see Google, YouTube Video Challenge).
“Portions were taped without authorization by a person who was in the program under a false name,” Mr. Schreiber said.
EFF Challenge
The Electronic Frontier Foundation is challenging the subpoenas on the grounds that the usage of the material constitutes fair use since it is used for the purpose of criticism, commentary, and news reporting.
Fair use is a United States doctrine that spells out where one can freely use copyrighted material. Fair use frequently involves scholarship or review.
The case revolves around a French documentary entitled Voyage to the Land of the New Gurus, which includes hidden camera footage taken inside a Landmark event held in France, and additional footage inside Landmark’s offices in France.
The documentary has shown up on YouTube, Google Video, and Internet Archive.
“Upon learning that the video was posted on several web sites, we availed ourselves of the rights provided under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) to request the identity of the people who posted this video,” Mr. Schreiber wrote in his email.
“The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) challenged our actions and alleged to the press that our copyright claims were bogus, which statement was then disseminated on the Internet,” he continued.
Mr. Schreiber said that Landmark Education’s goal is not to silence anyone, but to protect its core IP resources, which were infringed by the video.
“While we appreciate the work of the EFF, the allegation that our copyright claim is bogus is entirely inaccurate,” he said. “The facts are clear that the Landmark Forum program has for many years been copyrighted. Materials covered by this copyright registration were included throughout the video.”
For more info
[thepiratebay.org]
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 04, 2006 10:41AM
Notice the outrageous hypocrisy and blatant bald-faced dishonesty when Landmark says they believe in free speech on the internet?
How uber-cynical and perverse to put out that kind of statement, unless Landmark has redefined "Free Speech" to mean, "threaten, bully and file frivolous lawsuits against every person you possibly can to suppress free speech no matter the cost".
Now they are going after the Australian site which hosts the video and transcript and other material about Landmark. Looks like those Ozzies are going to need some protection and help.
I do feel sorry for all of the people Landmark has harmed, they truly are a horrendous organization...monstrous...
[www.caic.org.au]
How uber-cynical and perverse to put out that kind of statement, unless Landmark has redefined "Free Speech" to mean, "threaten, bully and file frivolous lawsuits against every person you possibly can to suppress free speech no matter the cost".
Now they are going after the Australian site which hosts the video and transcript and other material about Landmark. Looks like those Ozzies are going to need some protection and help.
I do feel sorry for all of the people Landmark has harmed, they truly are a horrendous organization...monstrous...
[www.caic.org.au]
Quote
Landmark Education wrote to me, objecting because I have these articles listed on this site. They claim that they are not a cult and therefore demand that they be removed for this reason. This I will not do. I have a disclaimer posted on this site which clearly states my position regarding the organizations listed. Most of the articles regarding Landmark/Forum/EST are anecdotal - subjective experiences of others who have been through the Landmark/Forum/EST experience. They are provided to give an alternate viewpoint to that found on their own website.
I reiterate what is said on our opening page: Just because a group is mentioned on this site does not mean we regard it as a destructive cult. Both Cults and Isms are listed to provide information for those seeking the downside of many of these movements. If the writers of the articles refer to Landmark as a cult, we take no responsibility for this. It is the opinion of the writers based on their own personal experience.
Landmark and litigation re: France 3 video - false claims
Posted by:
John Fox
()
Date: November 05, 2006 02:45PM
Had a very interesting chat. The CAIC people have seen an incredible amount of traffic from the Landmark video episode. Both to the video and also the transcript pages.
The site has received traffic from the EFF site as well as Slashdot, but the standout is the veritable flood that has continued to come from boingboing. (silly site name, but very effective)
The video page has been visited 1115 times and the transcript page has had 576 visits. Not bad for pages that have only been in existence for just over a week.
The site did run out of bandwidth for a few hours on Saturday, but they have bucketed in more than enough to keep serving the demand. I guess they're having some fun over there! :wink:
John
The site has received traffic from the EFF site as well as Slashdot, but the standout is the veritable flood that has continued to come from boingboing. (silly site name, but very effective)
The video page has been visited 1115 times and the transcript page has had 576 visits. Not bad for pages that have only been in existence for just over a week.
The site did run out of bandwidth for a few hours on Saturday, but they have bucketed in more than enough to keep serving the demand. I guess they're having some fun over there! :wink:
John
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