I attended Landmark a couple of months ago, because, quite frankly, I wasn't being a very good mother to my kids. A little explanation... (my "story," I guess) :oops:

When I was about 20, I got completely hammered at a party, and my brother's friend "took advantage" of the situation - leaving me pregnant. The product of that night was my (now 18 year old) son whom I raised alone. I also have another six year old son from a failed relationship. (I'm sure I 'created that possibility' too) I went to the Forum because I knew I wasn't 'embracing' motherhood, and was feeling resentful of my children, losing my freedom, etc.

At Landmark, I told one of the volunteers about my 18 year old's conception, and how I think I have always, in some way, taken it out on him. Her response was that "you chose him" and that I should tell him about how he was conceived. This seems extremely inappropriate to me. What child would actually want to know that his mother was literally forced to have him? (FYI - I don't believe in abortion). Does this make sense to anyone?

However, I am grateful to Landmark because I realized while watching all of these very damaged people speak, that if I don't become a better parent to my boys, they're going to turn out as messed up as those people. That was an aha moment for me, so I do feel that was worth the time and money spent.

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jacquelinejolie
This seems extremely inappropriate to me. What child would actually want to know that his mother was literally forced to have him? (FYI - I don't believe in abortion). Does this make sense to anyone?

However, I am grateful to Landmark because I realized while watching all of these very damaged people speak, that if I don't become a better parent to my boys, they're going to turn out as messed up as those people. That was an aha moment for me, so I do feel that was worth the time and money spent.

LOL, they were a sort of 'negative inspiration' to you:)

I agree, they shouldn't tell you what to do about such serious issues, especially as they are not trained counsellors and there is little ongoing support after the workshop.

I'm glad you managed to get what you needed out of it in spite of them:)
Love
Kath

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jacquelinejolie

However, I am grateful to Landmark because I realized while watching all of these very damaged people speak, that if I don't become a better parent to my boys, they're going to turn out as messed up as those people. That was an aha moment for me, so I do feel that was worth the time and money spent.

The Landmark programs were designed by a man who abused and abandoned his own children. Many have speculated that they were created to rationalize his own bad behavior. Surely a philosophy that pronounces "a victim creates his own victimhood" would let the bad parent off the hook for any repurcussions of his own behavior. How lucky that you recognized the flaw at the core of this stupid program. There are many more who would embrace this nonsense as a way to absolve themselves.

Best to you,

EZ

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ezdoesit
The Landmark programs were designed by a man who abused and abandoned his own children.

Well that charge was thrown out of court if memory serves and his daughter admitted to being paid to say those things

I don't know the facts of this case, I'll leave that to someone else, but lets assume you're right.

Erhard raised a daughter who publicly accused her own father of sexual abuse, in return for money. :shock: Not exactly a great advert for parenting skills and happy family relationships, is it?

And then we have Buster from Quest bragging in the middle of a seminar that his daughter burnt their house down because they weren't listening to her, and how powerful that makes her... :roll:

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Well that charge was thrown out of court if memory serves and his daughter admitted to being paid to say those things

Ummmm.... what "charge" are you referring to exactly.... I mean, if you say "charge", you then are saying that a criminal proceeding was initiated in a jurisdiction, and that Jack W. Rosenberg would have been compelled to present himself before a court. I know of no such "charge" in the legalistic sense.

However, did you ask yourself how badly out of whack a family system would HAVE to be for one daughter to invent such a fabrication, and convince a second daughter so say so of her own free will to Ed Bradley of 60 minutes ?

And secondly, why did this man of such great "integrity", such insistence on "getting complete", on his "mastery".... well, why didn't he also allow Mr. Bradley to talk to him ? Why did he conveniently place himself outside of US jurisdiction, and only phone in his "story"....

This flies in the face of all common sense.... because when you conduct yourself like a spineless worm, you have to expect that people will take you for a spineless worm.

When your family system acts crazy as the lowest denominator soap opera from the outskirts of West Trashberry, people will take you to be the lowest denominator soap opera from West Trashberry....

When your organization acts like it is massive denial, people will take you for being in massive denial.

You know the bottom line ? Werner and his oily little toads thought they were so damn smart, and everybody else was so damn stupid, and so easily fooled. Turned out to be the other way around. [/size:8c556c7653]

They were the Assholes. And everybody could see that. Except themselves.

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nutrino

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Well that charge was thrown out of court if memory serves and his daughter admitted to being paid to say those things

Ummmm.... what "charge" are you referring to exactly.... I mean, if you say "charge", you then are saying that a criminal proceeding was initiated in a jurisdiction, and that Jack W. Rosenberg would have been compelled to present himself before a court. I know of no such "charge" in the legalistic sense.

However, did you ask yourself how badly out of whack a family system would HAVE to be for one daughter to invent such a fabrication, and convince a second daughter so say so of her own free will to Ed Bradley of 60 minutes ?

And secondly, why did this man of such great "integrity", such insistence on "getting complete", on his "mastery".... well, why didn't he also allow Mr. Bradley to talk to him ? Why did he conveniently place himself outside of US jurisdiction, and only phone in his "story"....

This flies in the face of all common sense.... because when you conduct yourself like a spineless worm, you have to expect that people will take you for a spineless worm.

When your family system acts crazy as the lowest denominator soap opera from the outskirts of West Trashberry, people will take you to be the lowest denominator soap opera from West Trashberry....

When your organization acts like it is massive denial, people will take you for being in massive denial.

You know the bottom line ? Werner and his oily little toads thought they were so damn smart, and everybody else was so damn stupid, and so easily fooled. Turned out to be the other way around. [/size:762a67d8bc]

They were the Assholes. And everybody could see that. Except themselves.

Indeed.

Ha, ha, I especially liked that last bit, Nutrino. However I seem to recall that these were never full retractions, but partial retractions of certain bits of the info from 60 Minutes.

Its interesting how everything to do with Jack Rosenberg - Werner Erhard is completely backwards and dishonest.

What makes more sense?
That someone paid a daughter to accuse her father of sexual abuse?
Or that a daughter told the truth about sexual abuse, and then was perhaps paid a large sum of money to stop talking about it by some fancy lawyers for the accused?
Or perhaps recanted in an attempt to save the family, as often happens.
Maybe one day the children in question will come forward and tell the truth, if they want to.

The bottom line is that Jack Rosenberg completely abandoned his own family.
The reality is that JR Werner Erhard is a coward and a complete fraud, who chose to run offshore and hide out of his own lack if integrity, and his paranoia.
Its truly amazing how people can be so easily duped by 3rd-rate flim-flam artist like Werner Erhard.

What i find most disturbing about "the Landmark Experience", and subsequent stories i have read about on the Internet, while people feel very strongly that Landmark IS "cultish", and that they are a just a big money grabbing company, no one has yet identified that The Landmark Education Corporation IS using [b:03ba692edb]group-hypnosis[/b:03ba692edb] during the sales-pitches to family and friends of "Graduates" at the so-called "graduation ceremony" (which is just one big high pressure sales pitch).

After attending three such "ceremonies" (in an attempt to try to understand why someone I know has been sucked into this Landmark Crap) I finally realized that they were using my friend to attempt to hypnotise me. (fortunately for me I am one of those individuals who is not easily hypnotised so it did not work).

I also do not "do guilt", so I did not get sucked in when the very charming and persuasive speaker said: "I assume you have been brought here by a friend, or a loved one, whom you TRUST...so why would you NOT want to sign up"...hence planting the seed of doubt, that if I do not sign up I therefore must not trust my friend. HAH! - that trick didn't work on me either!

So basically, when people want to complain about Landmark and the unethical practices they use, remember to state that you have been subjected to [u:03ba692edb]hypnosis without giving them permission.[/u:03ba692edb]

Also, if you want to complain and you want your money back, be sure to add to your complaint that, while you did sign a consent form, it was not INFORMED consent, because nowhere in that form did it state that you would be subjected to group-hypnosis!

i could write a thesis on this! ... but i won't.

UPDATE;

I just spoke to another friend of mine. She said one of her friend's got sucked in by Landmark and is now initiating a complaint process; she suggested that as many people as possible write to :

The Attorney General of British Columbia (Canada)
The Honourable Wally Oppal
Room 232 Parliament Buildings
P.O. Box 9055 Stn. Prov. Govt.
Victoria, BC V8W 9E2

and register a complaint, stating the following grounds:

1. illegal business practices (Landmark IS using pyrmid sales, only using the "bartering system"; i.e. a "volunteer" will get a course for free as long as they sign up a certain number of recruits. (pyramid sales is illegal in Canada.

2. Landmark is using cohersive sales techniques (getting friends and relatives to practice hypnosis techniques on people they are trying to get to sign up), without advising people that they are doing this. - this comes under the heading of unethical, high pressure sales which is not allowed in BC.

3. Landmark is not fulfilling its promise to "change your life" during The Forum (rather, they say, if you do not succeed it is your own fault.)

4. Landmark Education Corporation (LDC) is using-group hypnosis without advising the prospective recruit or course participant that they are doing so.

5. LEC is practicing group therapy in a dangerous and unethical manner and they do not provide a safety-net in case of mental breakdown during or after the courses and seminars.


She is also sending a letter of complaint to:
Complaints Department
College of Psychologists of BC
404 - 1755 W. Broadway
Vancouver, BC V6J 4S5

citing unethical practices which include group-hypnosis WITHOUT INFORMED CONCENT and practicing therapy without doing a complete clinical and psychological workup.

You could also write to

MARKETPLACE
P.O. Box 500
Station A
Toronto, ON
M5W 1E6

stating your experience and asking them to do an Investagative Show about Landmark Education Corporation.